Japanese-Egyptian team hunting for new tomb at Giza

[quintessentone]

Possibly as part of their UNESCO effort?  https://whc.unesco.org/en/partners/277/#...%20purpose.

To them, cooperation is a better stance than individualism.  Here's a project that benefits the world and that they can support...I'm sure it's a win-win idea for their culture.

...but I don't know.  I'm not Japanese and not involved with their archaeology or government.

That is very interesting.

[Byrd]

That is very interesting.

If you look at some of our older civilized concepts, the idea of "noblesse oblige" occurs in almost all of them (all the ones I can think of) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona...e%20oblige

In other words, the wealthy behave in ways that are frequently NOT shown by those Americans who are among the "newly wealthy" class.  The wealthy (traditionally) are patrons of arts, artists, and culture, helping maintain their country's health and well being by funding projects and giving grants to artists and writers and musicians, enabling them to create objects that delight the senses while pushing the envelope in other ways.  They fund science and scientists (which would include archaeology) and the development of knowledge (university chairs, prizes, libraries, museums)... think of the value of our Smithsonian Institute or National Archives (Smithsonian is due to one wealthy man)  Warren Buffet is a good example of someone who does a lot of charitable work with his money.  

The Nobel prize was the inspiration of one wealthy man.  So was the Pulitzer Prize.

Many of the foundations started by wealthy families also join in global efforts to feed starving people, help refugees, bring medicine to underserved communities (including ones here in America, like the Appalachians.)  These efforts actually PREVENT war and violence -- when there's enough to eat and schools for kids and medicine and free or cheap entertainment (museums, for example) and a peaceful environment where businesses can flourish, crime and violence go down in that area.  Where there is poverty and desperation, violence goes up and can spill over into First World countries.

Although not exclusively Christian (practiced, as I said, in almost all cultures around the world), the idea of noblesse oblige was one of the practices held dear by Christian nobles and rulers in Europe.

[quintessentone]

If you look at some of our older civilized concepts, the idea of "noblesse oblige" occurs in almost all of them (all the ones I can think of) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona...e%20oblige

In other words, the wealthy behave in ways that are frequently NOT shown by those Americans who are among the "newly wealthy" class.  The wealthy (traditionally) are patrons of arts, artists, and culture, helping maintain their country's health and well being by funding projects and giving grants to artists and writers and musicians, enabling them to create objects that delight the senses while pushing the envelope in other ways.  They fund science and scientists (which would include archaeology) and the development of knowledge (university chairs, prizes, libraries, museums)... think of the value of our Smithsonian Institute or National Archives (Smithsonian is due to one wealthy man)  Warren Buffet is a good example of someone who does a lot of charitable work with his money.  

The Nobel prize was the inspiration of one wealthy man.  So was the Pulitzer Prize.

Many of the foundations started by wealthy families also join in global efforts to feed starving people, help refugees, bring medicine to underserved communities (including ones here in America, like the Appalachians.)  These efforts actually PREVENT war and violence -- when there's enough to eat and schools for kids and medicine and free or cheap entertainment (museums, for example) and a peaceful environment where businesses can flourish, crime and violence go down in that area.  Where there is poverty and desperation, violence goes up and can spill over into First World countries.

Although not exclusively Christian (practiced, as I said, in almost all cultures around the world), the idea of noblesse oblige was one of the practices held dear by Christian nobles and rulers in Europe.

Absolutely we forget or don't acknowledge enough those people within the 1% who nobly oblige others and/or causes through generous donations.

[crayzeed]

If there was one place I would love to go, it is to see the pyramids! But a few people have told me, once you're there, they're not that spectacular! I'm like WHAT?? They're massive frigging pyramids! It would be awesome! Oh, if I was rich!

Ah Missbeck, please don't waste your thoughts or money to see the pyramids. Let me tell you a story, be very, very careful in Egypt especially if not accompanied. We went on a cruise to see the pyramids. Disembarked at Alexandria, a couple of hundred yards to the buses (they could have been very close, but) all the way being harassed by street sellers. On the buses, armed guards, they were with us all the time. Got to the pyramids, bus drops you off nearly a mile away, more beggars. You are dropped for one reason only, to make you pay for a "camel ride" up to the pyramids. Or you walk in the stifling heat. Yeah, inside the great pyramid, very claustrophobic, but more importantly if you can't stand the smell of stale urine don't go in. Came out the pyramid, buses outside. Why didn't they drop us off there? The same back, armed guards and beggars to get to the ship. Save your money and don't go.

[MissBeck]

Ah Missbeck, please don't waste your thoughts or money to see the pyramids. Let me tell you a story, be very, very careful in Egypt especially if not accompanied. We went on a cruise to see the pyramids. Disembarked at Alexandria, a couple of hundred yards to the buses (they could have been very close, but) all the way being harassed by street sellers. On the buses, armed guards, they were with us all the time. Got to the pyramids, bus drops you off nearly a mile away, more beggars. You are dropped for one reason only, to make you pay for a "camel ride" up to the pyramids. Or you walk in the stifling heat. Yeah, inside the great pyramid, very claustrophobic, but more importantly if you can't stand the smell of stale urine don't go in. Came out the pyramid, buses outside. Why didn't they drop us off there? The same back, armed guards and beggars to get to the ship. Save your money and don't go.

Your story is exactly the same as what one of my co-workers has told me, practically word for word. She said she was constantly harrassed and it totally spoilt the whole experience. I could never afford it anyway to be honest. My holiday consist of 4 days at Butlins, Minehead.

[Byrd]

Your story is exactly the same as what one of my co-workers has told me, practically word for word. She said she was constantly harrassed and it totally spoilt the whole experience. I could never afford it anyway to be honest. My holiday consist of 4 days at Butlins, Minehead.

Depends on the tour.  We had a very different experience with Archaeological Paths Tours... the tour guide kept most of the vendors from us.  When the bus stopped, the guide got off and said he'd take one thing from each vendor, offer it to the bus, and if we didn't want it...then that was that.  When one of the drivers tried to shake us up for more money, we simply told the guide and he told that driver to leave and that he wasn't going to get another contract with the tour group.

I hope you'll get a chance to go someday and that you'll get a good guide and group.

[MissBeck]

Depends on the tour.  We had a very different experience with Archaeological Paths Tours... the tour guide kept most of the vendors from us.  When the bus stopped, the guide got off and said he'd take one thing from each vendor, offer it to the bus, and if we didn't want it...then that was that.  When one of the drivers tried to shake us up for more money, we simply told the guide and he told that driver to leave and that he wasn't going to get another contract with the tour group.

I hope you'll get a chance to go someday and that you'll get a good guide and group.

Yeah, I don't have many places that peak my interest, but this is one that does. Maybe, one day.

[Nerb]

Thanks for posting all this. I have had a small fascination regarding Egyptology since queuing for hours at the British Museum as a kid in 1972 to see The Treasures Of Tutankhamun.

His golden mask was awe inspiring and at the age of 7 I still remember standing there infront of the display case in a daze as other people around me seemed to dissappear, until my mum woke me and apologised to the other visitors for my apparent selfishness for not moving along. I like to relish unique moments.

I still have the guide book from that day detailing the dig, the discovery and all about the treasures.
ISBN 0 7230 0070 0 for anyone interested.

Regarding the pyramids, I have been theorising about the construction for many years, as have so many, and cannot get one idea out of my head....

What if every single block was not dragged or rolled up an exterior slope to be raised to each level, but pulled up a central shaft using long ropes on all four sides? A roller mechanism at the top providing the lifting platform and timbers placed under each block as the exited the hole at the top. From there they are rolled or dragged into place on the flat surface of the previous layer.

This could account for why the largest pyramid showed the most obvious sign of this possible construction method by inadvertantly creating 8 sides instead of 4 when the flat faces were "creased". The dragging and pushing of each block from the centre would incrementally push all blocks below outwards over time, and the corners obviously have blocks pushed further than the centre ones and accentuate the effect towards the four corners more than the centre of each flat side.

Merely speculating and theorising.

Anyway, thanks for the thread and allowing me to return to some very fond memories. I would also like to visit Egypt, but would probably prefer to see King Tutankhamuns tomb and more of the sites off the beaten track.

[Byrd]

Thanks for posting all this. I have had a small fascination regarding Egyptology since queuing for hours at the British Museum as a kid in 1972 to see The Treasures Of Tutankhamun.

His golden mask was awe inspiring and at the age of 7 I still remember standing there infront of the display case in a daze as other people around me seemed to dissappear, until my mum woke me and apologised to the other visitors for my apparent selfishness for not moving along. I like to relish unique moments.

I still have the guide book from that day detailing the dig, the discovery and all about the treasures.
ISBN 0 7230 0070 0 for anyone interested.

Regarding the pyramids, I have been theorising about the construction for many years, as have so many, and cannot get one idea out of my head....

What if every single block was not dragged or rolled up an exterior slope to be raised to each level, but pulled up a central shaft using long ropes on all four sides? A roller mechanism at the top providing the lifting platform and timbers placed under each block as the exited the hole at the top. From there they are rolled or dragged into place on the flat surface of the previous layer.

This could account for why the largest pyramid showed the most obvious sign of this possible construction method by inadvertantly creating 8 sides instead of 4 when the flat faces were "creased". The dragging and pushing of each block from the centre would incrementally push all blocks below outwards over time, and the corners obviously have blocks pushed further than the centre ones and accentuate the effect towards the four corners more than the centre of each flat side.

Merely speculating and theorising.

Anyway, thanks for the thread and allowing me to return to some very fond memories. I would also like to visit Egypt, but would probably prefer to see King Tutankhamuns tomb and more of the sites off the beaten track.

You have to realize that there's not a lot of timber in Egypt.  The trees are mostly small and spindly and the taller ones (palm) are basically just Very Big Grasses.  Rope fibers and cables wear out pretty quickly under use, and it would require quite a bit of plant material and rope making to do that.  They had (and named) heads of various departments (including "head of bead stringers") - but there's no rope manufacturer group that's ever been found, nor does there appear to be the remains of a lot of rope on the site.

They did a lot of this kind of lifting in Egypt... even in the New Kingdom they were hauling huge stones up to the top of temples (like the Karnak Temple) and using ramps of mud brick.  The remains of one of those ramps is still standing today at one of the pylons in Karnak (saw it for myself.)

The tomb I wanted most to see (Seti I) was closed when we went, so I had to content myself with Ramesses III... and was most content with the beautiful place.  I could have spent a lot longer down there, just looking at all the gorgeous art.

[Nerb]

You have to realize that there's not a lot of timber in Egypt.....
.....nor does there appear to be the remains of a lot of rope on the site.

Levitation by wind it is then. 20,000 people blowing down tunnels on all four sides in a mass chant, converging in the centre just under each block raised slightly into a central lifting shaft.

That would be a great recreation to try on an episode for The Discovery Channel.

On a serious note, perhaps there was no department for rope making because ropes would have been used for shipping and on the Nile and would be imported instead of made on site. Also, rope gets reused which could explain why little or none was found on site.