I support abortion because I don't think rapists should be allowed to be fathers

[ArMaP]

Even if i can't persuade women to terminate their pregnancy there should be no legal barrier preventing them from doing so of their own volition.

I agree with that.

[ArMaP]

Difference is you could have if you wanted to. It was never an option for me.

Your assumption is wrong.

[SomeStupidName]

I know there are a few Libertarians among the DI community,
so a bit of Ayn Rand.

You can rationalize it all you like however life starts at conception and abortion is murder. The compromise I provided above applies to all ideologies weather they agree when life starts. It's a compromise because all parties concede something to gain something that a majority can agree enough on to make into a law or constitutional right.

[Bootless]

The idea that a woman must be immune from the consequences and obligations of her actions—else she is deprived of 'choice'— is bizarre: it implies she has no autonomy when deciding to have sex. Is all sex rape?

The problem is that we live in a situation of binary law: either legal or illegal.

If a girl has an ectopic pregnancy, did she choose that? I don't think so.
But if she's in a state with no abortion allowed, she could die from that. There are many other things that can and do go wrong.

If legislative choice is for legal or illegal than I would prefer some "convenience" abortions happen rather than forcing girls and women to take their chances of dying because of correctable complications.

That's just me, and some women have said that I shouldn't be allowed any say in the matter 'cuz I never have to make the choice.

[rickymouse]

The problem is that we live in a situation of binary law: either legal or illegal.

If a girl has an ectopic pregnancy, did she choose that? I don't think so.
But if she's in a state with no abortion allowed, she could die from that. There are many other things that can and do go wrong.

If legislative choice is for legal or illegal than I would prefer some "convenience" abortions happen rather than forcing girls and women to take their chances of dying because of correctable complications.

That's just me, and some women have said that I shouldn't be allowed any say in the matter 'cuz I never have to make the choice.

I approve of abortion if there is a medical reason for it....meaning if it threatens the woman's life it should be allowed.  That comes under the medical emergency laws, and most often, that is legal and not restricted by any abortion ban.  I think a few states have made it so that it cannot be done even then, but Federal law does trump state laws in that case.  Maybe the person may have to go to a different state for the surgery there if the state bans it, but they should not have to go to a different state because it is lawful.  I feel that this could be abused though, all of a sudden everyone who wants to have an abortion will have their doctor saying it is ectopic.  I know opinionated doctors who would do this locally.

In Michigan, it is legal for a woman by state law to have an abortion up till the point of viability.  But what does that mean....that definition is vague, it is based on the opinion of the doctor.  So I can see that the time frame could be extended to whatever the doctor wants it to be extended to.  But also, complications do come up late in pregnancy, and the baby is viable already, but that is related to the other part of the law which refers to medical emergency.

Just because a wife gets upset with her husband and decides she doesn't want the kid, is not a good reason for an abortion, it used to be that both parties had to agree on it if married.  According to planned parenthood a few years ago, there was no need to have the Husband informed....well, that was not right either.  It could cause a divorce and planned parenthood should not have even mentioned that to someone I know.  Put it this way, that was my great grandson that would have been eliminated if my granddaughter would have said ok.  He might be a brat, but at least he is a great grandbrat.  The only one who is real frustrated with him is his older sister, she is eight, he is five....he gets mad when she doesn't want to play with him or watch what he wants to watch on TV...so he bites her once in a while...but even though she bitches, she still loves him.  Sibling rivalry is healthy.

[UltraBudgie]

If legislative choice is for legal or illegal than I would prefer some "convenience" abortions happen rather than forcing girls and women to take their chances of dying because of correctable complications.

A bit of a strawman, as the law being "binary", in determination of fact, doesn't mean it can't handle more nuanced situations¹. There are clear and well-defined exceptions for life-threatening pregnancy conditions. You are correct that the laws and phrasing vary from state to state, and more work is needed to make things clear for doctors. Even the most strident anti-abortion activist would agree with that, I would think. But that complexity doesn't mean we can't have abortion laws. If you think it does, the analogous strawman argument would be saying that since some killing are in self-defense, and that complicates the determination of fact, we can't have murder laws.


¹ https://statecourtreport.org/our-work/an...-exception

[ANNEE]

The problem is that we live in a situation of binary law: either legal or illegal.

If a girl has an ectopic pregnancy, did she choose that? I don't think so.
But if she's in a state with no abortion allowed, she could die from that. There are many other things that can and do go wrong.

My question:  why is it anyone else's business.

No woman should be required to answer to anyone outside herself -- her right to abortion.

Why is anyone allowed to vote on this?  That's pure invasion of autonomy.  

It's sick that this is legislated on.

[Maxmars]

I really hate name-calling.  Even more so because I do it too.

I don't think that casting our personal judgements on the OP with our conversational suggestions of "getting professional help" are genuinely helpful.  In fact, even if the OPs intent was to "bait" for  wildly constructed emotional responses... it is we who provide the additional response drama.

There are some premises here at play... not all of them are coherent.

Most begin taking the OP assertions at face value.  (If the premise and intent were not sincere, or merely the exploration of the topic is a matter of perception...)

If the OP represents something you abhor, or an attitude you can not abide... and you actually engage to see either where this attitude comes from, or why it's a topic in first place... we must be seeking some sense of 'reason' behind it.

There may not be "reason" behind it at all...

It maybe pain manifesting the only way it can, given the voice...

Many of us may never have the strictly "male" sentiment of "I want to have a mate, a partner, a life with the joys of willing company... someone who may even bring me to the dream of fruitful family."

And while women have recognized an impulse to be a mother, nurturing and cultivating a little person who reminds them of those who loved them always...

the male equivalent is given the social weight of a foible, a whim, a pretense... usually by women... (who by the way have no respect for male pain, once they suffer as only a woman is capable.)

Some actually believe that the final point of existence is to make progeny... and associate that drive with human value and life success.  

Some feel so painfully overlooked and powerless that the lack of a relationship becomes a standing testimony of failure...  It can become a haunting deficit because...

We covet what we see everyday... and being 'together' with a kind loving soul as a companion is probably the pinnacle of human connections... matched only be the bond of a loving child.

This painful existence is much harder to navigate, if you dare 'introspect' alone. 
Being "mortally" alone is one of the most challenging personal journeys I ever faced... 

There is a hard, unforgiving echo to being alone...
It resounds in the heart by pretending to be something else:
"No one cares," "I'm not worth it."  "No one will share their heart with me ever."
"I don't matter."  "No woman will ever reach for me, desire me, wish to be with me."
"I will never be so loved."

But oddly, the op has focused on a disparity...

Rapists get to sire offspring... when he can't.

Rapists get to "choose" the woman they "might reproduce with."
... and perhaps an unspoken... "The very best women, will ruin my admiration for them by 'nurturing' the despoilers seed."

The OP has provided the point of leverage in this discussion...

The OP appears to want a child... his own... of his bloodline...
(... and perhaps wished to avoid declaring flatly that he deeply wishes to be loved as himself.)

Rapists get to reproduce ... the OP laments that... 
Assuming (boldly, and completely theoretically) that any rapist shared the OP outlook... in fact, they would rape specifically to reproduce... (not sexual violence, power and powerlessness.) 

I wonder if it maters to the rape victim.

Yet we don't really encounter that justification in most rape accounts...

... and honestly, it seems that rape under such a pretense as "existential dread" is even more cruel to the hapless "victim of circumstance" in the vicinity... under the guise of "she has to keep it."

But again... people have always argued over rape.... never once stopping to recognize that "rape" is not just  assault for sexual gratification; and arguments about gender or not, it can happen to men too... much more frequently than most ever hear about.

I submit the OP is no rapist, nor an enemy thus, of women.

This thread, interestingly enough proves to me that some of us actually, genuinely, are experiencing what I "loftily" call "community."

This thread will be a lasting memory to me... and I accept that is not the case for many... but I love it when people demonstrably quiet their inner activist, and actually speak to one another.

It's not a goal... it's a path.... and we are definitely "on it."

As has been mentioned...

I suppose I should refrain from future participation...
you guys really don't 'need' a moderator dropping TLDRs because he just can't "not be a member too."

[SomeStupidName]

My question:  why is it anyone else's business.

No woman should be required to answer to anyone outside herself -- her right to abortion.

Why is anyone allowed to vote on this?  That's pure invasion of autonomy.  

It's sick that this is legislated on.

Where were you during the forced vaccines shouting for invasion of autonomy? oh It was part of your Marxist takeover agenda so that was okay. 

You want to commit murder without catching a charge so how about you get 5.

[FlyersFan]

Why is anyone allowed to vote on this? 

Because 'we the people' set the laws of the land, and that includes medical procedures in which a beating human heart is stopped from beating.