Here's what you do

[Vermilion]

The numbers speak for themselves.
Trans people face sky high rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide even after medical transition.
If the treatments really work, why are the outcomes so poor?

Also, why would you tell your child they can change their sex? It’s not possible.
You either have a Y chromosome or you don’t.

[ANNEE]

The numbers speak for themselves.
Trans people face sky high rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide even after medical transition.
If the treatments really work, why are the outcomes so poor?

Also, why would you tell your child they can change their sex? It’s not possible.
You either have a Y chromosome or you don’t.

Maybe instead of shutting down care facilities — we should go in the other direction of properly training counselors/psychologists, etc. 

There is a difference between physical sex and gender. 

I don’t understand in these discussions why some can not get past focus on physical.

[Tecate]

How is it not a Mental Illness issue if so many Trans people have such high rates of depression, anxiety and suicide?

If we advocate for more mental healthcare facilities and treatment centers, does that not point to Transgenderism as a Mental Illness?

Asking for a friend….


Tecate

[quintessentone]

How is it not a Mental Illness issue if so many Trans people have such high rates of depression, anxiety and suicide?

If we advocate for more mental healthcare facilities and treatment centers, does that not point to Transgenderism as a Mental Illness?

Asking for a friend….


Tecate

How do we not know it's societal (and perhaps familial) toxicity and hate that is the issue, which in turn is causing the resulting emotional and mental effects?

[rickymouse]

By this logic no one should be allowed to do anything until their twenties like join the military, get married, conceive children, vote, shoot guns, own a car, decide on a career, etc. in case their undeveloped 18 year old brain is wrong.

Where was your head when you were 18? Like most, I’m guessing, pretty sure of yourself and knew where you were going? I’m also guessing that by 6 or 7, there was no doubt in your mind that you were a boy and nothing or no one was going to make you think any differently but when trans kids have this same innate sense of who they are, they can’t be sure until they’re 18 or 25 or some other arbitrary number.

What I think a lot of people fail to understand is that our gender, one’s sense of being a boy or a girl, is at the fundamental core of personality and identity that most everything we do throughout our lifetimes is based on that and as I have shown, this sense of one’s gendered self is established in early childhood.

For the 99% this conveniently aligns with their biology and is innately buried so deeply down in the psyche that any sort of mismatch seems impossible to comprehend or relate to and I think this is one reason it is so hard for people to understand the transgender condition beyond the fact that is complicated and too icky and disturbing for most to even think about.

Just as people don’t choose to be homosexual or heterosexual, people don’t choose to be trans either. What some can choose is whether or not to pursue transition in some form or another most often to more of a non-binary identity but for many, especially for those with severe cases of early onset gender dysphoria; this can be less of a decision and more of a life or death situation.

Why do you think statistically trans people have higher rates of suicide, suicide ideation, depression and anxiety? This has to be one of the greatest mindfucks a person can ever experience especially when those around them and society tell them they are wrong, too young to know who they are or will burn in eternal hell for their sins against the sky gods.

As to your $100,000+, this is exactly the reason puberty suppression is vital when indicated as it vastly reduces the money, time and painful corrections needed from an unwanted puberty and allows for a much more normal life experience and a more seamless assimilation into society which is only what most trans people want.

________________________________________


Children very early on learn to recognize gender differences in others and themselves without any knowledge of genital configurations and you can be darn sure when they’re treated and interacted with as the wrong gender, it is going to stick out like a sore thumb or a rock in their shoe.

I’m not particularly fond of the whole gender dysphoria paradigm but it has some utility and gained some common basic understanding when having these discussions but if you’ve ever known some of these kids it’s more like their whole consciousness and personality is inverted and they are very aware of it at a precocious level because it feels so alien. If you’re into mysticism and believe in such things, you might even say they are born with a spirit that does not match the parts and appears to be beyond all logic and reason. Most parents try to break that spirit and many succeed at least for a while. In spite of believing there's some trans youth epidemic, that’s why you see the majority of trans people “coming out” between 30 to 45 and screwing up their lives in the process.

I would be curious to know if you are a parent and how you explained the differences between boys and girls without at least mentioning different body parts? Heavens forbid talking about sex with children lest someone allude to pedophilia.


Why stop there? Maybe we could eliminate other undesirable traits too like gingers and left-handers? Maybe we could get rid of pesky racial minorities too and those we determine who will be unattractive or of low intellect. Let’s stop the gays before they happen too. Heck, maybe we could even engineer a master race if we play our cards right?


Damn. Equating trans people with non-humans is pretty low. FYI, trans children and adults almost universally have normal hormone levels before treatment.

I have no problem with people who are gay or lesbian or BI.  That is their choice if they want to go in that direction.  It is not a genetic trait at all, It is not a biological problem either.  Most people have genes that are more masculin or feminine....that is how it works.  Most people have a mixture of genes that involve sexual qualities, and if some of the genes are present that form the sex organs, that is the sex they are.  So we have gays and lesbians, and Bi's as a choice, no changes to the body are needed.  A good friend of mine, a woman, was gay but still bi.  She was a great person.  She decided she wanbted to settle down and have a family and she met a guy who was really nice, they had two kids and after twenty years of marriage, she got devorced.  But she stayed straight after that I think, I talked to her one day about twenty years ago and she was still the fun loving person I knew yet, We never talked about her preference that day, I was so glad to see her and I danced with her....not having danced for twenty years I found how out of shape I was that night and have not danced again.  She died last year and I was bummed out that I did not go and visit her up north in Hancock.  I would have liked to introduce my wife to her, I know she would like her. 

I did not like the girl she was going with, back when I was young, she was a jerk, pushy and controlling, not my idea of a good person.  But it was her choice who she went with.  I approved of her husband she finally married after she broke up with her girlfriend, even though I loved her, I had put her in my head as a sister because of the situation, I do that with women who are married to friends too.  I tried a date with her after she broke up with the girl she was going with but could not shake the sister classification I had made, and I was not comfortable going to bed with her at all.  I did this with a lot of girls and women over the years, sometimes good friends cannot go out I guess, that is the way it is supposed to be in my mind.  I figured at a young age, if I was a good friend with a girl and it did not work out, then our friendship would not be the same.  I still talk to women I was friends with and my wife knows how I think, I told her I would never go out with a good friend, it would be the ones I was not friends with that she could worry about.

I stood at their wedding as the best man and that was a little hard to do.  The wedding was on the edge of a clip and the minister saved him from falling over it when they were getting married, the minister told him you aren't getting out of this that easy.  


at the time I was friends with that girl, and everyone else in the apartment, there were two gay couples, me, and an Indian guy I know...we were both straight, and the ones who had the apartment were a straight couple.  People thought I was gay because I hung around and shared an apartment with two lesbian couples.  I say gay in relation to both guys and girls going out with their same sex, back in the early seventies...gay was gay...we referred to anyone going out with the same sex as gay.  Now they have so many different names, the word queer was a bad thing to call a person back then, but now they have that in the lgbq classification...don't know why anyone would call themself queer....

If I was a girl, I might consider being a lesbian since I probably would not want someone sticking something in me down there either.   So, there is no way in hell I would choose to go out with a guy.  I understand gay girls, but am confused about gay guys mental state a little....that is my personal opinion, but if a guy wants to go out with guys, that is his choice I guess,  

I just do not believe that changing your sex is necessary, and I do not believe anyone under eighteen should be allowed to do it, after they turn eighteen, they are then considered adults, and at that point it is their personal choice.  I know lots of people who have kids and they want to please their kids, but parents are parents, and kids change their minds all the time. 

My eight year old great granddaughter would only eat white meat of chicken, I told her dark meat had more flavor. but she would not even consider it.  So my other daughter, my greatgranddaughters grandaunt, was over our house with her husband and his kids from a previous marriage.  now the daughter of the my daughters husband was there too, with her friend, I think she considers herself non binary.  So, the greatgranddaughter heard her wanting dark meat, and the great granddaughter tried it and loved it...and wants dark meat ever since.  Won't eat white meat anymore if she has the choice now.  A sixteen year old with a drivers license got her to taste dark meat and I could not even get her to taste it without her wrinkling up her lips and spitting it out.

That last paragraph is an example of how young people can change their minds quickly, there is no way in hell that they should be giving gender changing meds.  People are giving kids options, yet they never have actually experienced their gender yet. 

My granddaughters friend was going to change to a girl from school, and he stood for her at her wedding in a Bridesmaids dress, now he was a shy meek guy, and he was changing his sex and still going to go out with girls...he was going to be a lesbian transgender girl...which makes no sense.  He was fine the way he was, and he just needed to find the right girl, he was still in highschool at that time.  I never followed up on what happened to him, if he kept on going or what.  AT least he had enough brains to still go out with women when he wanted to transgender.  

I think we should look at trying to stop the profiling in school on sexuality and work on it that way, convince people you do not have to be dominating because you are a guy and being less of a person if you are a female.  WE were making good progress on that from the sixties to the two thousands, slow and sure, but then it went off kilt too far and now people are getting polarized from too much change too fast being shoved down their throats.

Again, that is my opinion being a guy who is old and has seen a lot over the years and tried not to judge others for their differences...unless they were jerks.  Notice how I stress the jerk issue.

[Unknownparadox]

I’d say that’s probably true. Or inclination without proper counseling. Read up on brain scans. 

However, not the topic of this thread. 

So, you’re going to continue taking a hardline against something you don’t have knowledge of or understand. 

Agsinst posters who obviously have knowledge and understanding on this topic.

That's pretty funny, suicide bombers are born that way. Also you didn't answer the question. It's really a simple question. If the trans are a product of external forces, would you stop it?

You and your knowledgeable friends are taking a hard line as well. So one good hard line deserves another.

You refuse to accept any, and I mean any explanations other than these people are born in the wrong body. Which makes absolutely no sense from a evolution stand point, and none from a biblical stand point.

And you don't have any knowledge. You have people claiming this that and the other. All of your facts rely on someone said so. So by that logic. You have to believe in aliens, Bigfoot, ghosts, the bible, Buddha, demons and so on.

[ANNEE]

That's pretty funny, suicide bombers are born that way. 

I don't think its funny at all.

Go read up on criminals and brain scans.

[argentus]

So your child is certain and you are certain. If you have a transgender daughter, growing facial hair and developing a deep voice as well as potential musculoskeletal development would likely cause more distress than your support could manage and cause lifelong difficulties and cost tens of thousands of dollars to correct the things that could even be corrected not to mention all the pain and time required.

If you are empathetic and supportive enough to allow your child to try socially transitioning without medical intervention other than counseling and indeed this results in improved outcomes and everyone is certain, socially speaking, not developing as your peers can also have devastating emotional consequences.

This is why puberty suppression is vital to these kids who have been properly diagnosed and observed over time. It gives them an additional few years to better understand the ramifications of medical transition such as loss of fertility without undergoing an unwanted and often disastrous puberty. IMO, withholding this treatment and doing nothing is neglect.

If puberty blockers are withdrawn or discontinued, natal puberty will proceed normally with potentially very minimal or no side effects. These drugs have been in use for about 25 years.

If after several years of suppression, nearly all in this cohort proceed to taking cross-sex hormones at 15 or 16ish. Estrogen works slowly and if discontinued after a year, many or most of the changes will revert naturally with perhaps some latent gynecomastia? Testosterone for trans boys on the other hand, is very potent and can cause permanent changes in just a few months.

Genital surgery for under 18s is super extraordinarily rare and is prohibited in several states. In fact, any sort of so called "gender affirming care" is banned in over half the states in the U.S. because politicians in the pockets of their religious extremists base (think Project 2025) seem to think they know more than doctors, families and the kids themselves what is best while ignoring the actual science involved. They champion "parental rights" except for when it comes for parents deciding what is best for their trans children.

It sickens me.

I hear you, and I don't doubt the situations in which you describe occur.   I grew up with a trans girl.   I am sorry to say that I shared in shunning her for her difference, however I am glad to say that we always protected her from the worst of ourselves, who wanted to hurt her.    She was a girl.  We all knew she was a girl, even though being born a boy.   She wasn't effeminant, no, in fact on hindsight I would characterize her as a tomboy.   I know, I know.   Not at PC term, however apt it might be.   

She eventually -- in her mid 20's -- got the operation.   It was more dicey in those days than now.   She wasn't entirely happy with the results, however she felt safe in her own skin.   I was happy for her.   

I do not think she should have been allowed to make those choices as a child, because children are influenced by that which the media feeds them.   Perform an experiment:   Ask a child where they want to live.   Silly, right?  And yet, it demonstrates that children cannot fully measure rational decisions.   I think physical changes should not be allowed for children.   Some of them change their minds.  Did you know that?  Did you?  That makes a huge difference for me.

[ANNEE]

It's really a simple question. If the trans are a product of external forces, would you stop

What do you mean by external forces?  And what exactly am I stopping?

People who tend to be involved in specific areas of life -- do tend to gather knowledge.

[tellmethesecrets]

I said this before over on ATS - my personal story:

As a 9,10,11,12 year old kid I hung out with boys, we climbed trees, razzed around on bikes, built dens etc.

I never wore 'girly' clothes, I was always in dungarees, jeans, tracksuits etc and if my mum tried to put me in a dress or anything with frills it made me want to puke!

I was always envious of my guy friends as they were that bit stronger and faster than me. They could take a leak in the wild much easier than me.  Boy life was just much better!

I used to constantly say to my parents that I wish I'd been born a boy, why couldn't I be a boy etc etc.

When my chest started developing I was so grossed out by this, I would put a tight belt around my waist under my t-shirt and pull my vest down so tight it would flatten any shape.

Then BOOM, 13 hit. An older boy told me he thought I'd be really pretty when I was older... Cue the influx of hormones and swift 180.

From that day on, my teen years were filled with pink, fluffy items and glitter and makeup.

Since then I grew up to be very much a girly girl - people I know now are so shocked when I tell them this story, as at my ripe old age of 39 I'm probably still more 'girly girl' than most!

Long story short... Thank goodness my parents ignored my moaning and didn't send me off to transition!!!! ?