Here's what you do

[EXETER]

There are some who think letting a minor child make their own decisions about gender is perfectly ok. Never mind that this is a decision that will change every aspect of their lives for decades to come, they think they are perfectly competent to make those kinds of decisions.

....

Here's the problem with the way you are phrasing the issue:

Children don't "decide" to be one gender or another.  They come to realize what their gender situation is, as it evolves over time.  And because it is not a "decision" parents can't make it for their kids, regardless of the fact that the parents can usually foresee the consequences of the path their kids are on. Individual behaviors around sexual identity are among the most strongly held habits known.  This is why you can't "pray away the gay". 

When I went through puberty, I didn't go through a big agonizing internal debate and trade study over whether I was gay, bi, or was attracted to Shetland Ponies. I just suddenly realized over a short period of time that I was hopelessly heterosexual.  

A little while later, I slowly came to realize that a small number of the people I had grown up with and gone through school with had come to different realizations.  I didn't know why then, and I still don't.  I just know that for some reason, the world operates that way, and that they are honestly representing their truth as much as I am representing mine. 

These people who are apparently built differently than I am weren't put here on Earth to piss me or you off or to violate the teachings of some "holy" book that was written hundreds or thousands of years ago, like the Bible, the Koran, the Talmud, or the Upanishads. You can piss and moan about it all you want, but that isn't actually going to change objective reality.

Don't take it personally.

[rickymouse]

I read a lot of science, and they state in multiple articles that kids brains are not fully capable of making rational decisions till they are in their twenties.  So if scientific evidence states this, then why are parents letting their teens who are under their legal control and liability make a decision to change their sex.

Those backing sex changing state all this science to back their belief that it is all right to let a child choose the sex they want to be....yet they ignore the fact that their minds are not fully developed yet and that their life experience is going to change as they get older.

Teach the kids and society that it doesn't matter if a boy is testosterone driven or a girl is a tomboy.  We do not have to profile ourselves into fitting into being feminine or masculine.

I was never a Macho guy, I knew girls who were not interested in being a girlish girl.  Why are they making a big issue of this, those who believe that changing your sex is going to make you happier are not thinking right.  Sure these people get a high for a while, and people are cheering them on for doing it, but in the end, it will not bring permanent happiness.  I don't have any problem with gay people as long as they are not pushy or trying to convince others that their way is better.  But gay people are not spending a hundred grand to change their sex over their lifetime, and a hundred grand is almost the minimum.  Who is profiting by pushing this practice, I am sure the psychologists get extra money in their trade, and of course there are the medical and pharmaceudical companies that gain wealth for their products and services.  Now is that right?  You wonder why these professionals and businesses are not saying it is not necessary to do.

We as a society must accept people as they are...unless of course if they are jerks or pushy son of a bitches.  We need to step back and just examine the direction our society is going into.  We cannot let someone else convince us that changing our sex at high cost is going to make things better.  In fact a lot of the people doing this are kind of getting avoided by a high percent of the population and that will make things harder for them in the future.

A small percent of people is trying to push their beliefs on all of us.  I feel sorry for the people who change their sex, usually those people are timid or feel inferior, we should try to befriend them instead of shying away from them because they don't fit the sexual expectations of others.  If a guy is femine like, he might find a girl that has a more guy like personality, and it goes the other way too.  One size shoe does not fit all, and if you think that changing that same wrong size shoe to a girls shoe if you are a guy is going to solve the problem...you might need to ask your cat for advice.  Society has to learn to accept people as they are, unless they are dishonest, jerks, pushy A-Holes, or are troublemakers.  We need to start working together to straighten out this country and not start forcing our beliefs down others throats and pushing improperly evaluated science down people's throats. 

That is my rant, my opinion.  Like I said, I have nothing against gays or whatever, and I feel sorry that those people who got convinced to change their sex are spending so much on it when in the future they might regret it...which many do.  People pushing them to do it should be seeing a psychiatrist.  I have friends that are gay and lesbian, they are decent people, they are not pushing their way on others trying to create more like themselves.  It is their choice, not mine, I get along with them just fine as long as they don't get pushy.  I even told my daughter during a conversation if she wants to be gay, It is her choice and I would accept it when she was in high school. As long as she didn't become a vegetarian.  She is not a vegetarian so I did my job as a dad correctly.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

(OP text replaced with a GiF)

* Bites with ideomotor impulse* 

Why am I able to know I'm gay at 14 but they are not able to know they are transgender?  

If a girl restrains her breasts, has a boy cut, and likes boy clothes there are things that might be  already evident.  A desire to downplay the feminine form. You know she is comfortable in a  masculine appearance.

So....

Why is she allowed to be only up to a "lesbian that acts/dresses/looks like a boy", but forced to wait until 18 to call himself a guy if that's what he wants? 

Its like: 

"Ooops, we're sorry, culture has decided while we have no problem with your teenage preference for women, duct-taping your breasts, wearing boys clothes, or having a masculine haircut, we demand you call yourself a "butch lesbian" until you're old enough to no longer make us uncomfortable."

Why is there an arbitrary line where the same person stops being allowed to express themselves until they're 18?

Like, "Gee, Thanks for making me wait unnecessarily.  I just hope it helps you feel better about society."

Seems ridiculous and more about placating zones of comfort under guise of whatever BS LibsofTikTok and her repressed obsession is pathologically focused on. 

[Unknownparadox]

Did you go research it?

You seemed to know the answer. Or at least your sources supposedly do. And from what I am hearing, from the "experts" it seems to be shortly after children start to talk.

But here is the thing. A a 3 or 4 old child isn't going to quote the bible, unless they are taught the bible. The same with sex. Unless they have a problem with their genitals. They aren't going to be discussing them. A 3 or 4 year old child isn't going to know if they are supposed to have a penis or a vagina. Since they haven't seen both. Unless some people are educating them on it.

I remember when my daughter, first saw a black person. She was completely baffled and amazed by them. The reason being she had never had any experience with them. The same goes for genitals and gender. They have no clue that anything other than what they have exist on the planet. Unless someone is educating them on it at a very early age.

And for anyone to find out this information means they are discussing sex with very young children. Which use to be considered pedophile in nature.

[UltraBudgie]

dang i clicked on this thinking it was the toilet paper thread and i'm like why are they talking about sex everywhere? haha!

i knew someone once and they were very nice person and i heard years later that they went trans and swapped out and i bet they were still really nice person and not crazy weirdo like some people say so i think this thing is overblown but also kids are dumb haha

[Unknownparadox]

But the physical body changes in the teen years. 

If you are a girl in your brain — you do not want a masculine body. 

If you are a boy in your brain — why get boobs — then have to spend thousands of dollars to have them surgically removed?

That is not logical. 

What we really need is more trained qualified counselors, psychologists, psychiatrists, specialized physicians. 

 Counseling is #1 priority. But, look what’s currently happening.

It's not logical nor scientific to think a child's brain has developed enough to make life changing decisions. If they can make those kinds of decisions they aren't children. And all you have to do is get the legal age of adult lowered, problem solved.

And what we really need to do and the logical thing to do, is look at plastic and all the damage plastic is doing. With all it's birth defects and hormone mimicking chemicals a person is bathed in from conception to death. Which most of those 16,000 chemicals are unregulated.

Lets do a little thought experiment.

Suppose you could stop all these peoples gender problems before it occurred. Would you do it?

The current mind set is reactive not proactive. It's a good thing Clair Cameron Patterson didn't take a reactive stance. Otherwise we would all have 3 flippers and 2 beaks by now. But it looks like we are headed in that direction again.

[Bootless]

I will ask this; do people "decide" to be gay or straight or are they just that way? Pardon me for making assumptions here about your sexuality but when did you decide to like girls and how old were you when you knew for sure? Did you wait until you were 15 or 18 to make this life changing decision?

Did you have to experiment with both to know which way the wind blew or were you just the way you are because that's how you turned out?

Wow! Thinking back.

I'm pretty sure I remember kissing a girl when I was about 5. At six, I proposed marriage to two sisters, illegal in some places. I didn't actually marry either one. That makes me a cad or rake or breaker of promises.

By 7 I was role playing kissing the queen's hand after she decided not to have me beheaded. That was with a neighbor girl who was in my second grade class. We had seen the movie in school about Francis Drake and Queen Elizabeth.

Do I have to mention the gay stuff? Okay, I [ redacted ] when I was 12. I didn't care to repeat that one bit.

I've had many girl friends. Didn't do the whole heterosexual act until age 19.

Now I'm old and ugly. Gave up sex 28 years ago. Doesn't matter, it's not like the decrease in overall sex is noticeable in the World.
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I would say that at least by 5, kids have a sense of gender roles and how they feel about them or feel like pursuing or not.

[AnAlternateOpinion]

I read a lot of science, and they state in multiple articles that kids brains are not fully capable of making rational decisions till they are in their twenties.

By this logic no one should be allowed to do anything until their twenties like join the military, get married, conceive children, vote, shoot guns, own a car, decide on a career, etc. in case their undeveloped 18 year old brain is wrong.

Where was your head when you were 18? Like most, I’m guessing, pretty sure of yourself and knew where you were going? I’m also guessing that by 6 or 7, there was no doubt in your mind that you were a boy and nothing or no one was going to make you think any differently but when trans kids have this same innate sense of who they are, they can’t be sure until they’re 18 or 25 or some other arbitrary number.

What I think a lot of people fail to understand is that our gender, one’s sense of being a boy or a girl, is at the fundamental core of personality and identity that most everything we do throughout our lifetimes is based on that and as I have shown, this sense of one’s gendered self is established in early childhood.

For the 99% this conveniently aligns with their biology and is innately buried so deeply down in the psyche that any sort of mismatch seems impossible to comprehend or relate to and I think this is one reason it is so hard for people to understand the transgender condition beyond the fact that is complicated and too icky and disturbing for most to even think about.

Just as people don’t choose to be homosexual or heterosexual, people don’t choose to be trans either. What some can choose is whether or not to pursue transition in some form or another most often to more of a non-binary identity but for many, especially for those with severe cases of early onset gender dysphoria; this can be less of a decision and more of a life or death situation.

Why do you think statistically trans people have higher rates of suicide, suicide ideation, depression and anxiety? This has to be one of the greatest mindfucks a person can ever experience especially when those around them and society tell them they are wrong, too young to know who they are or will burn in eternal hell for their sins against the sky gods.

As to your $100,000+, this is exactly the reason puberty suppression is vital when indicated as it vastly reduces the money, time and painful corrections needed from an unwanted puberty and allows for a much more normal life experience and a more seamless assimilation into society which is only what most trans people want.

________________________________________

A 3 or 4 year old child isn't going to know if they are supposed to have a penis or a vagina

Children very early on learn to recognize gender differences in others and themselves without any knowledge of genital configurations and you can be darn sure when they’re treated and interacted with as the wrong gender, it is going to stick out like a sore thumb or a rock in their shoe.

I’m not particularly fond of the whole gender dysphoria paradigm but it has some utility and gained some common basic understanding when having these discussions but if you’ve ever known some of these kids it’s more like their whole consciousness and personality is inverted and they are very aware of it at a precocious level because it feels so alien. If you’re into mysticism and believe in such things, you might even say they are born with a spirit that does not match the parts and appears to be beyond all logic and reason. Most parents try to break that spirit and many succeed at least for a while. In spite of believing there's some trans youth epidemic, that’s why you see the majority of trans people “coming out” between 30 to 45 and screwing up their lives in the process.

I would be curious to know if you are a parent and how you explained the differences between boys and girls without at least mentioning different body parts? Heavens forbid talking about sex with children lest someone allude to pedophilia.

Suppose you could stop all these peoples gender problems before it occurred. Would you do it?

Why stop there? Maybe we could eliminate other undesirable traits too like gingers and left-handers? Maybe we could get rid of pesky racial minorities too and those we determine who will be unattractive or of low intellect. Let’s stop the gays before they happen too. Heck, maybe we could even engineer a master race if we play our cards right?

Otherwise we would all have 3 flippers and 2 beaks by now

Damn. Equating trans people with non-humans is pretty low. FYI, trans children and adults almost universally have normal hormone levels before treatment.

[Unknownparadox]

You don't have a alternate opinion. You Have a alternate reality. 
 

By this logic no one should be allowed to do anything until their twenties like join the military, get married, conceive children, vote, shoot guns, own a car, decide on a career, etc. in case their undeveloped 18 year old brain is wrong.

18 is the law, 17 in some states. If you don't like the rules. get them changed. I should address that in my, what's wrong with democrats thread. As any laws they dislike. They figure they are entitled to ignore. But never mind 3-4-5-6 is a long way from 18.
 

Just as people don’t choose to be homosexual or heterosexual, people don’t choose to be trans either. What some can choose is whether or not to pursue transition in some form or another most often to more of a non-binary identity but for many, especially for those with severe cases of early onset gender dysphoria; this can be less of a decision and more of a life or death situation.

By that logic we can assume child suicide bombers are born that way.
 

Why do you think statistically trans people have higher rates of suicide, suicide ideation, depression and anxiety?

That's a real head scratcher. Let me take a wild guess. Maybe because their heads are being filled with a bunch of unnecessary complication at a early age. And their bodies are being filled with a bunch of unnecessary drugs. And they were screwed by plastic from the get go. Maybe just maybe?
 

 Children very early on learn to recognize gender differences in others and themselves without any knowledge of genital configurations and you can be darn sure when they’re treated and interacted with as the wrong gender, it is going to stick out like a sore thumb or a rock in their shoe.

No I can't be sure of that. I can't be sure of anything coming from you. You are massively biased, to say the least.
 

Why stop there? Maybe we could eliminate other undesirable traits too like gingers and left-handers?

This is why you can not be trusted, and why you have desire to help the trans, only a desire to increase it. If plastic is the reason why we have a trans explosion. Which given the current known facts about plastic. There is a very high probability it is. Instead of stopping the mutation or birth defect. You want to let it stand. Never mind all the pain and suffering, you say it is causing.
 

Damn. Equating trans people with non-humans is pretty low. FYI, trans children and adults almost universally have normal hormone levels before treatment.

I equated birth defects thanks to a foreign substance humans were being exposed to. Thanks to greed and stupidity. And we have another substance doing the exact same thing. And we have the exact same thing. The stupid and the greedy not wanting to do anything about it.

One other thing. Hormone "MIMICKING" chemicals. Not hormones

[ANNEE]

By that logic we can assume child suicide bombers are born that way.

I’d say that’s probably true. Or inclination without proper counseling. Read up on brain scans. 

However, not the topic of this thread. 

So, you’re going to continue taking a hardline against something you don’t have knowledge of or understand. 

Agsinst posters who obviously have knowledge and understanding on this topic.