Has Ukraine collapsed

[andy06shake]

My "standard" works until its inconvenient to you. 

How many generation "American" are you?.

Ukraine has been considered a sovereign nation since 1991.

And that's also by the "Russian Federation."

That's just a fact.

[Kurokage]

No such thing  as Ukrainians, they are slavs who fled there after 1945. Russian is the true ethnicity, like my grandmother who was born there.

I don't agree with your understanding of who or what a Ukrainian is, and you shouldn't believe what communists and now Putin push as the truth.

The modern name Ukraintsi (Ukrainians) is derived from Ukraina (Ukraine), a name first documented in the Kievan Chronicle under the year 1187. The terms Ukrainiany (first recorded in the Galician–Volhynian Chronicle under the year 1268[sup][a][/sup]), Ukrainnyky, and even narod ukrainskyi (the Ukrainian people) were used sporadically before Ukraintsi attained currency under the influence of the writings of Ukrainian activists in Russian-ruled Ukraine in the 19th century.

https://theconversation.com/why-does-put...nce-253043

Russian rulers have often repurposed history to build their power, according to historian Orlando Figes. Putin wrote a well known essay in 2021 that called Russians and Ukrainians “one people”. He was relying on old beliefs that Russia has the right to “restore” or reunite lands it once ruled.

A broad expanse of the former medieval kingdom of Kyivan Rus incorporated territories in present-day Ukraine, Belarus and Russia, including Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv. From 1386 until 1772, the majority of these lands came under the rule of Poland-Lithuania, governed by the Lithuanian Jagiellon dynasty, and their successors.
 
In 1547, Ivan declared Muscovy a tsardom and Moscow to be the “Third Rome” – in other words, the latest centre of true Christianity, after Rome and Constantinople. This idea made conquest seem like a holy mission. By the late 1700s, the Russian Empire had destroyed Poland-Lithuania in a series of territorial annexations and wars. It had spread far to the south and east, and now bordered with Prussia and Austria.
Ukraine, with its rich farmland and cultural connection to Kyivan Rus, was a top prize. Russian leaders called Ukraine “Malorossiya”, or “Little Russia”, to claim it was just a small part of a larger, Russian whole. They banned Ukrainian-language publications, forced the Orthodox Church of Ukraine to answer to Moscow, and tried to stamp out any sense of a separate Ukrainian identity.
However, Ukraine developed its own cultural identity, shaped by its Cossack traditions, its history under Polish–Lithuanian rule, and its separate experiences. Many Ukrainians argue their culture existed long before Muscovy evolved into an empire.

[BeTheGoddess]

Ukraine has been considered a sovereign nation since 1991.

And that's also by the "Russian Federation."

That's just a fact.

And how many generations is that?

Plus Yeltzin agreed to every demand because his drunkard arse is more incompitent than my drunkrse.

Khrushchev was Russian, not  a slav. If you dont know what I mean by that, its you who is the terrorist.

[andy06shake]

And how many generations is that?

Plus Yeltzin agreed to every demand because his drunkard arse is more incompitent than my drunkrse.

Khrushchev was Russian, not  a slav. If you dont know what I mean by that, its you who is the terrorist.

That's nice, but it doesn't change the facts.

Which is Ukraine is a sovereign nation recognised back in 1991.

As to the silly terrorist jibe, ile put that down to you posting whilst drunk. 

It's uncalled for and against the T&C.

Might wanna think about an edit.

[Oldcarpy2]

And how many generations is that?

Plus Yeltzin agreed to every demand because his drunkard arse is more incompitent than my drunkrse.

Khrushchev was Russian, not  a slav. If you dont know what I mean by that, its you who is the terrorist.

Ever hear of the Holodomor?

[xpert11]

No such thing  as Ukrainians, they are slavs who fled there after 1945. Russian is the true ethnicity, like my grandmother who was born there.

I think that might have confused Ukraine with German speakers who were expelled from some of the former Nazi occupied territories after WW2 ended. Ukraine existed long before the 20th century's world wars.

Serhii Plokhy's The Gates of Europe: A History of Ukraine is an excellent read and covers Ukraine's history, including,  where applicable, its history before or during Russia's development.

Edit: Formatting and wording.

[FlyersFan]

My "standard" works until its inconvenient to you. 

How many generation "American" are you?.

My ancestors first came here in 1639.
Rev. John Lathrop
And there is no need to put American in quotes.
I'm American.

Your standard doesn't work.

If the people of California decided they didn't want to be American anymore and they formed their own country, and the United States of America declared that those people weren't American anymore and recognized that new country, and the international community recognized that new country ... then those people would no longer be American, they would be Californian and their own country.   If, 35 years later, the United States changed it's mind and invaded the new country and started slaughtering the population, then they would be invaders of a sovereign country.

That is what is happening with Ukraine and Russia.   Russia recognized Ukraine ... and now it's changing it's mind and invading and slaughtering Ukrainian citizens who are not Russian citizens.   They are the invaders.   The Ukrainian citizens are fighting back.  Russia are the bad guys.   Ukranians are the victims.

[FlyersFan]

 If you dont know what I mean by that, its you who is the terrorist.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation, recognized as such by Russia and the international community.
Russia invaded a sovereign nation and is slaughtering it's citizens.
If you don't know what I mean by that, it's you who is the terrorist.  (your words back)

[Maxmars]

There are many rationales that can (and often do) lead to what common societies consider "terrorism."

Allowing yourself to recognize how or why someone justifies their perspectives does not make you or anyone else a 'terrorist.'

I wish I could say outright... "I know terrorists" without being misunderstood.

The people who come to act on their "teaching everyone a lesson" mentality are not uncommon at all.

It's the blindness to the outcome in human terms that makes them willing to kill... even if there is no war.

But when there is war... they can 'teach' with virtue and honor... so they do.


At least attempt to stop the name-calling... it serves nothing to the point of discussion... in fact...
if you descend to that point... withdraw before the name calling... or figure out how to point out your perception without the pretense.

[quintessentone]

There are many rationales that can (and often do) lead to what common societies consider "terrorism."

Allowing yourself to recognize how or why someone justifies their perspectives does not make you or anyone else a 'terrorist.'

I wish I could say outright... "I know terrorists" without being misunderstood.

The people who come to act on their "teaching everyone a lesson" mentality are not uncommon at all.

It's the blindness to the outcome in human terms that makes them willing to kill... even if there is no war.

But when there is war... they can 'teach' with virtue and honor... so they do.


At least attempt to stop the name-calling... it serves nothing to the point of discussion... in fact...
if you descend to that point... withdraw before the name calling... or figure out how to point out your perception without the pretense.

Also see how convenient and justified murder becomes when one labels someone or something as a terrorist/terrorism/Nazi?

"Putin on Ukrainian POWs in Kursk: ‘We Must Treat Them as Terrorists’Shocking new video footage allegedly shows Russian troops executing Ukrainian POWs."

"“Once again, we see cynical disregard for international humanitarian law on the part of the Russian army,” Lubinets wrote."

Putin on Ukrainian POWs in Kursk: ‘We Must Treat Them as Terrorists’