FYI ATS

[l0st]

What I think was a problem with ATS was the fact that positions got more extreme and people less likely to accept opposing views, probably because of the "Facebook effect" of people being used be being "liked".

One thing I noticed was that several women (that usually hid the fact they were women) decided to leave ATS when things started to be more extreme, so that created an even more male forum "population".
I also noticed that on another forum in which I was an adminitrator.

I think these types of forums have always been "male heavy." Did "several" woman actually leave or a couple with a bunch of sock accounts? On one of the other boards I frequent the majority of the sock posters appear to be women, most of whom only showed up to the community when trannyism hit the news cycle and also had a strange bent for pushing Covid vaccines and bashing Donald Trump.

Its fairly obvious because they push all kinds of crap printed typically in British tabloids and lets face it, Men don't read tabloids, and long term members of the CT community don't use The Daily Fail and Newsweek as sources.

[ArMaP]

Did "several" woman actually leave or a couple with a bunch of sock accounts?

Yes, several.

[Maxmars]

I think the problem that happened was organic... meaning that it was bound to happen, given the popularity that was suddenly being reported.

"Popularity" translates into something different, in the world of commerce.  It means "potential revenue." 
"Popularity" also translates into opportunity for activist exploitation.

Now, people like to express their beliefs, and predilections, sometimes because we seek affirmation, and other times we seek dialogue to explore.

"Affirmation" can be a dopamine/endorphin-seeking activity.

But when it is a "tool" for profit or proselytization, it becomes "used" to attract attention with the goal of increasing contact (spreading) - ending in a "sale," or in "aggrandizing" a notional "ideology."

Perhaps the fault was comically ironic, a result of members collectively not appreciating the value of the community, and the natural way it evolved, when confronted with agenda-driven crap intruding on the community.

Many thought, "Oh, it's the way of world changing..." throwing up their metaphorical hands and actively disengaging. 
We could have thought "Oh, it's the way of their world changing," and not run. 

In that way, we could have, as a community, steeled ourselves to it and confronted the ignorance itself, if we had 'cared to.'  Many didn't, believing instead that like the common media of today, ATS was "just entertainment." That it was becoming "mainstream." 

It was the telegraphing of the eventuality, more and more people were coming to see what this was all about.  Many of them had no sense of the existing ATS "culture"... only the advertised content.  It all started when the business acumen tried to "sell" ATS in the market.... a naturally good thing to do if you want to grow... but they could not really sell that it was an existing community of casually-connected people, doing research and discussing ideas.

It was UFOs, and Area51, Paranormal research, scientific advances, conspiracy theories from almost every age of man, archeology, anthropology, the animal kingdom - including cryptozoological information, and so on, and so on.   Many more people than admit it, are interested in such things.  They were being sold a playground... where the community had something more like workbenches.  Not a good combination.

To people who routinely aggregate for a generally specific reason... social media is not "just" a social thing.  The core ATS community were never hesitant sheep.  Regardless of contention, regardless of ideological differences, we engage.  ATS was never "just" social media... it became a repository of what some have considered, priceless information.  Superlative dialogues and in-depth analyses of fascinating topics.  The "social stuff" was all the crap we added on because, well... because we wanted to. After all, humans seek balance organically, a true example of "it is what it is."

We risked losing all that.  And there ATS sits... some doggedly loyal members seeking to 'keep it going.'  I applaud them.  But in this case, a devoted community has no agency.  It cannot (without intervention) "effect change."  I have no doubt that if they could "fix" ATS... they would.  (Sadly, I cannot benefit from such a resurrection because I am banned.  And as long as ATS exists, it will not include me again.)

I loved ATS. 

Some have intimated that there was a deliberate effort waged against ATS.... that 'effort' was 'waged' everywhere, including ATS...

What we are seeing is how ATS fared under the reality of their world.  But it did not kill the community, I know because many sought refuge here...

Deny Ignorance is a bold enterprise to undertake, in my opinion... for which I claim zero credit. 
My deepest appreciation to all those who labored to make Deny Ignorance a reality. 

What comes next is unavoidable..., "eventual," so to speak. 

Deny Ignorance is here to stay. 

Many who are still disengaged may find this to be a natural and desirable extension of the ATS we once knew.  They would do well to join up here... because this actually is the future. 

I would never discourage ATS' continued existence... for me it's like a childhood neighborhood full of precious treasured memories under threat of being torn down for God knows what.

And also... the information therein has value that cannot be adequately quantified... ('profitability' notwithstanding.)

I do apologize for going on so long... another TLDR from me.

MM

[midicon]

I think the problem that happened was organic... meaning that it was bound to happen, given the popularity that was suddenly being reported.

"Popularity" translates into something different, in the world of commerce.  It means "potential revenue." 
"Popularity" also translates into opportunity for activist exploitation.

Now, people like to express their beliefs, and predilections, sometimes because we seek affirmation, and other times we seek dialogue to explore.

"Affirmation" can be a dopamine/endorphin-seeking activity.

But when it is a "tool" for profit or proselytization, it becomes "used" to attract attention with the goal of increasing contact (spreading) - ending in a "sale," or in "aggrandizing" a notional "ideology."

Perhaps the fault was comically ironic, a result of members collectively not appreciating the value of the community, and the natural way it evolved, when confronted with agenda-driven crap intruding on the community.

Many thought, "Oh, it's the way of world changing..." throwing up their metaphorical hands and actively disengaging. 
We could have thought "Oh, it's the way of their world changing," and not run. 

In that way, we could have, as a community, steeled ourselves to it and confronted the ignorance itself, if we had 'cared to.'  Many didn't, believing instead that like the common media of today, ATS was "just entertainment." That it was becoming "mainstream." 

It was the telegraphing of the eventuality, more and more people were coming to see what this was all about.  Many of them had no sense of the existing ATS "culture"... only the advertised content.  It all started when the business acumen tried to "sell" ATS in the market.... a naturally good thing to do if you want to grow... but they could not really sell that it was an existing community of casually-connected people, doing research and discussing ideas.

It was UFOs, and Area51, Paranormal research, scientific advances, conspiracy theories from almost every age of man, archeology, anthropology, the animal kingdom - including cryptozoological information, and so on, and so on.   Many more people than admit it, are interested in such things.  They were being sold a playground... where the community had something more like workbenches.  Not a good combination.

To people who routinely aggregate for a generally specific reason... social media is not "just" a social thing.  The core ATS community were never hesitant sheep.  Regardless of contention, regardless of ideological differences, we engage.  ATS was never "just" social media... it became a repository of what some have considered, priceless information.  Superlative dialogues and in-depth analyses of fascinating topics.  The "social stuff" was all the crap we added on because, well... because we wanted to. After all, humans seek balance organically, a true example of "it is what it is."

We risked losing all that.  And there ATS sits... some doggedly loyal members seeking to 'keep it going.'  I applaud them.  But in this case, a devoted community has no agency.  It cannot (without intervention) "effect change."  I have no doubt that if they could "fix" ATS... they would.  (Sadly, I cannot benefit from such a resurrection because I am banned.  And as long as ATS exists, it will not include me again.)

I loved ATS. 

Some have intimated that there was a deliberate effort waged against ATS.... that 'effort' was 'waged' everywhere, including ATS...

What we are seeing is how ATS fared under the reality of their world.  But it did not kill the community, I know because many sought refuge here...

Deny Ignorance is a bold enterprise to undertake, in my opinion... for which I claim zero credit. 
My deepest appreciation to all those who labored to make Deny Ignorance a reality. 

What comes next is unavoidable..., "eventual," so to speak. 

Deny Ignorance is here to stay. 

Many who are still disengaged may find this to be a natural and desirable extension of the ATS we once knew.  They would do well to join up here... because this actually is the future. 

I would never discourage ATS' continued existence... for me it's like a childhood neighborhood full of precious treasured memories under threat of being torn down for God knows what.

And also... the information therein has value that cannot be adequately quantified... ('profitability' notwithstanding.)

I do apologize for going on so long... another TLDR from me.

MM

That was interesting Max. I hadn't considered the idea that that ATS was in essence a victim of it's own popularity. Perhaps the same thing could happen here over time.

I hope the members here who can still post on ATS will send PM's to others and bring them here. That's how I found this website. I'm glad it's here!

I appreciate the time and effort put in by you and everyone else who contributes to the site...and of course the owner too. It has grown on me!

[Raptured]

Longtime marquee posters being banned marked the end of it to me.  I get it.  Owners didn't agree or maybe side-fighting but their contributions far outweighed any pissing matches

[ArMaP]

Owners didn't agree or maybe side-fighting but their contributions far outweighed any pissing matches

None of the cases I witnessed in all the years as moderator was because of owners "not agreeing" with something, things the owners didn't agree with and are reason for banning are in the Terms & Conditions of Use.

In many cases people are banned because of what they in the private messages to the staff, so while they may look like a model member, behind the scenes they are full of themselves and think rules should be changed to suit their opinions.

In some cases people have been banned because of what they say to others in private messages, and in rare cases even for legal reasons.

PS: Great contributions are always taken into consideration, but are not a "get out of jail free" card. People should be responsible for their own actions.

[l0st]

None of the cases I witnessed in all the years as moderator was because of owners "not agreeing" with something, things the owners didn't agree with and are reason for banning are in the Terms & Conditions of Use.

In many cases people are banned because of what they in the private messages to the staff, so while they may look like a model member, behind the scenes they are full of themselves and think rules should be changed to suit their opinions.

In some cases people have been banned because of what they say to others in private messages, and in rare cases even for legal reasons.

PS: Great contributions are always taken into consideration, but are not a "get out of jail free" card. People should be responsible for their own actions.

Not speaking about you personally or ATS in general, but at a lot of the CT and other general sites the moderation became very excessively overzealous during the Covid era. I was personally banned from 4 or 5 forums for speaking truth about Covid - and when I say speaking truth I mean citing actual news, video, scientific studies, public data, etc. Typically, once I would point out that there were no excess deaths for the year, that any additional excess deaths were within the margin of error, and that flu diagnoses had basically completely disappeared.

I do have to wonder if any of those moderators have reflected on their decisions knowing what they know now. I know on at least one of the sites, I stopped in to read a couple times, and people are still quoting the material I posted in these discussions and even asking where I went because they see now that what I posted at the time is true. After the harassment I received from moderators at those sites, I have absolutely no intention of returning.

I do think what Raptured has posted has some merit. Oftentimes these days it seems that people in positions of authority seem to feel that they do not need to justify their actions. While mods may label someone a "troublemaker" behind the scenes, if their public persona doesn't reflect that, you'll definitely be getting blowback from the userbase if these actions are not explained. So, as a commercial venture, it may even been ideal to keep certain "bad actors" around if it means keeping other clientele that will walk if they leave. I can think of at least one site that has had a mass exodus over the past couple of years due to stuff like this, and that site is IMHO severely floundering now.

Similar dynamic to your local bar. There's typically a couple of good bartenders and a few regulars that actually keep a place going. I've witnessed bar owners ban popular patrons from their establishment, or fire a popular bartender from their establishment, and the end result was that a big chunk of their clientele started going elsewhere - typically wherever the bartender or patron now goes. Worse yet, the bar in question now gets a bad reputation on the street for "kicking people out for no reason" (whether that's true or not is irrelevant) and others are not inclined to visit, or will visit with extreme skepticism and if they have any issues at all, no matter how minor, they will leave and never come back.

[sahgwa]

I miss the old internet for sure.

As I was saying elsewhere, a lot of us have also aged to the point where we don't feel like expressing ourselves as much as we used to, though.

That doesn't excuse the 'stream lining' /corporatising of the net though.... :(
false choices. etc.

[l0st]

I miss the old internet for sure.

As I was saying elsewhere, a lot of us have also aged to the point where we don't feel like expressing ourselves as much as we used to, though.

That doesn't excuse the 'stream lining' /corporatising of the net though.... :(
false choices. etc.

I saw it coming with the beginning of cloudflare and public CDNs. Why anyone wants this crap, I dunno. Most sites are located geographically to their clientele to begin with and for those that aren't, the latency probably doesn't matter to anyone by Google, who comes up with completely arbitrary metrics - like 2s page load times max for a good listing, when the typical corporate media front takes 15-25 seconds to load and is a #1 result.

Just excuses to control access to the content, and spy on who is viewing it, IMHO. Its really no big deal to setup a reverse proxy with squid and a copy of HAProxy on a VPS which gives you all the functionality of a CDN with none of the privacy implications.

Hell, I saw it even before that when Gmail went public beta. I was one of the first people given an invite. When I read their terms, the first thing I said was "why would I want Google to read my email and keep it in a database indefinitely?"

[Raptured]

I still check it a couple of times a week but it's become unbearable to have any kind of reasonable discussion.  You could start a discussion about dirt and it would eventually result in some type of political diatribe.

That site is nothing but a "my life sucks lets blame somebody" echochamber