BREAKING: Russian units broke into Pokrovsk

[RickyD]

But wait, there's more...

Less than a week and Trump has a new deal for Ukraine.

Link

What could Trump possibly give Putin now?

You're mistaking how peace tends to work...the winning side tends to dictate terms. I think Trump has understood that and he wants to end the conflict before Ukraine completely collapses...not to mention getting out of funding a country who's top people are stealing funds meant to help the nation carry on. Russia is going to eventually take what they want to take unless some nation joins Ukraine...which isn't going to happen. The choice is take what they give now or sit on the sidelines throwing away tax money on a losing war only to watch Ukraine lose everything...

[quintessentone]

But wait, there's more...

Less than a week and Trump has a new deal for Ukraine.

Link

What could Trump possibly give Putin now?

If Ukraine accepts any deal from Putin via Trump (just saw political cartoon where Putin had Trump puppet do the talking), Ukraine still loses.

[IDELB2006]

You're mistaking how peace tends to work...the winning side tends to dictate terms. I think Trump has understood that and he wants to end the conflict before Ukraine completely collapses...not to mention getting out of funding a country who's top people are stealing funds meant to help the nation carry on. Russia is going to eventually take what they want to take unless some nation joins Ukraine...which isn't going to happen. The choice is take what they give now or sit on the sidelines throwing away tax money on a losing war only to watch Ukraine lose everything...

Where is my mistake?

We are both expecting trump to give Putin a sweetheart deal.

The US is not leading the peace plan, Trump is simply an intermediary, a messenger boy for Putin.
Newsmax1

Rounds, who is attending the Halifax International Security Forum with the other senators, said Rubio insisted that the U.S. was only handling the plan as an intermediary and had never authored the 28 point plan document.
Apparently the document had been translated from Russian into English and then provided to the Ukrainians.
Here’s Rounds account as recounted by Newshour reporter Nick Schifrin:
“@SecRubio did make a phone call to us this afternoon. I think he made it very clear to us that we are the recipients of a proposal that was delivered to one of our representatives. It is not our recommendation, it is not our peace plan. It is a proposal that was received. … It was leaked. It was not released by our members or our representatives… this is an opportunity to receive it and… the Ukrainians… will have an opportunity to respond.”
Rounds added that the proposal had been handed to American intermediaries by someone believed to be acting on behalf of Russia.
Rounds said, “This was a proposal which was received by someone who… they believed to be representing Russia in this proposal. It was given to @SteveWitkoff.”

The reason I expect it to be such a great giveaway to Russia, is the Trump family representatives at the meeting where the Russians dictated there terms.

Newsmax2

 
U.S. officials and lawmakers are increasingly concerned about a meeting last month in which representatives of the Trump administration met with Kirill Dmitriev, a Russian envoy who is under U.S. sanctions, to draft a plan to end the war in Ukraine, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.
The meeting took place in Miami at the end of October and included special envoy Steve Witkoff, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner and Dmitriev, who leads the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF), one of Russia's largest sovereign wealth funds.
A close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, Dmitriev has taken a leading role in talks with the U.S. about the war and has met with Witkoff several times this year. The Trump administration has issued a special waiver to allow his entry, one senior U.S. official told Reuters.

You can't trust major deals like this to just anyone. When the stakes are high, its time to bring in Jared.

[xpert11]

If Ukraine accepts any deal from Putin via Trump (just saw political cartoon where Putin had Trump puppet do the talking), Ukraine still loses.

Any successful Ukraine peace deal would have to include Ukraine's NATO membership. A European- and UK-NATO-member-led security force in post-war Ukraine is another matter deserving attention. 

The restoration of Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is the only way to avoid a future war cycle, stemming from unresolved territorial disputes. 

The underlying element for those potential occurrences is the removal of Russian forces from Ukraine.

[Kurokage]

Its not even close to a win...thats what happens when you lose a war. You don't really get to demand much because the winning side will just ignore it and keep on beating you. Trump just wants peace and the only way it's going to happen is on terms Russia will agree with. They're trying hard to slip in some stuff favorable to Ukraine but realistically its unlikely Russia will go for it. They've said for a while now what they want and I have seen no signs that they intend to budge. Welcome to reality...looks different without the rose colored glasses on!

Neither side is on a clear win here even if you refuse to see it. I know it's you with the rose tinted glasses on, as you've always sided with Russia! I also see you choose to ignore the previous post with all the data about the Russian failing economy.

Russia has taken nearly 4 years to slowly edge into Ukraine with the loss of thousands of Russian soldiers and millions in equipment for only about 20-25% of the country (don't forget this was only meant to take 10 days!). Their economy is almost on it's knees and the Kremlin is having to employ soldiers from North Korea to make up the numbers.

Putin is clearly suffering from a sense of detachment from reality if he expects it all his own way in any peace deal, and it certainly looks like Trump is now coming around to what both Ukraine and Europe have to say.
Putin had to clearly offer Trump half of the Russian seized assets to go along with his demands so he must be getting desperate.
That's the reality here.

[RickyD]

Neither side is on a clear win here even if you refuse to see it. I know it's you with the rose tinted glasses on, as you've always sided with Russia! I also see you choose to ignore the previous post with all the data about the Russian failing economy.

Russia has taken nearly 4 years to slowly edge into Ukraine with the loss of thousands of Russian soldiers and millions in equipment for only about 20-25% of the country (don't forget this was only meant to take 10 days!). Their economy is almost on it's knees and the Kremlin is having to employ soldiers from North Korea to make up the numbers.

Putin is clearly suffering from a sense of detachment from reality if he expects it all his own way in any peace deal, and it certainly looks like Trump is now coming around to what both Ukraine and Europe have to say.
Putin had to clearly offer Trump half of the Russian seized assets to go along with his demands so he must be getting desperate.
That's the reality here.

Which way are the lines moving and have been moving for the last year? How has the speed of that movement increased? Which side is running out of soldiers to field? Either the west and Ukraine offer a deal that Russia favors or Russia just declines anything else and keeps pushing the lines towards the Deniper. Its painfully obvious obvious that Ukraine is no longer able to hold the lines and now its all about how many losses they can cause as they have to fall back. Everywhere Russia is pushing is moving their way so either Ukraine finds a way to make peace or they just keep losing more territory. None of this has to do with Trump aside from him being the only one trying to put forth a deal thats even remotely based in reality. None of this will matter though as the deal he is putting forth Russia won't agree to anyway. We can revist this in a week or so and see if I am right or not...

[RickyD]

Where is my mistake?

We are both expecting trump to give Putin a sweetheart deal.

The US is not leading the peace plan, Trump is simply an intermediary, a messenger boy for Putin.
Newsmax1

The reason I expect it to be such a great giveaway to Russia, is the Trump family representatives at the meeting where the Russians dictated there terms.

Newsmax2

You can't trust major deals like this to just anyone. When the stakes are high, its time to bring in Jared.

The lines are moving in Russia's favor everywhere they are pushing...Upushing...Ukraine is a breath away from being pushed back to the Deniper as it is and the longer they go the more their manpower shortage will speed up Russian advances. Either they make peace or lose more land...and Trump seems to be the only one involved that gets it. As I said in tye post above this...the current deal will likely be denied by Russia anyway so its all gonna be moot.

[Oldcarpy2]

The lines are moving in Russia's favor everywhere they are pushing...Upushing...Ukraine is a breath away from being pushed back to the Deniper as it is and the longer they go the more their manpower shortage will speed up Russian advances. Either they make peace or lose more land...and Trump seems to be the only one involved that gets it. As I said in tye post above this...the current deal will likely be denied by Russia anyway so its all gonna be moot.

The current deal is Russia's wish list.

Quite why you are rooting constantly for Russia, disgusts me.

[Creaky]

The current deal is Russia's wish list.

Quite why you are rooting constantly for Russia, disgusts me.

So you don’t see a proxy war set up by the corrupt West funding a criminal mass murder like Zelenskyy who is as evil and corrupt. 
A 10 year civil war started by the West (Biden) in Ukraine against Russians in Ukraine and you can justify that?
I am amazed you have no capacity for justice, no capacity to actually see true evil. 
Anyway, big slap on the nose of the US, another proxy war lost, losers
(That’s an attack on your toxic pride)

And when the US goes into Venezuela, attacks a sovereign country, you will cheer, disgusting hypocrisy 
And it’s about controlling oil

[Creaky]

None of this has to do with Trump aside from him being the only one trying to put forth a deal thats even remotely based in reality. None of this will matter though as the deal he is putting forth Russia won't agree to anyway. We can revist this in a week or so and see if I am right or not...

Pretty sure Trump would like to have his name up there as a negotiator for peace, point at the democratic proxy war as a failure and 
Russia are playing that slow game of chess, gentle constant pressure, their economy still seems robust. Putin has a winter port, not sure he needs much more than what he has already achieved.
Nato will probably collapse or tear itself apart over the coming decade