Questions for those who know Jesus

[Bootless]

It's only problematic if ones is mind controlled by those who dismiss all the other teachings in the lost gospels, which includes spirituality to achieve ascension of the soul and all that that entails while in the mortal world. What's wrong with having other paths to follow to get to the same place in the end?

What is ascension of the soul?

[andy06shake]

You have established that "It's not evil to question religious beliefs." in post #26.

We are now getting to the crux of why I started this thread. I am on a quest to redefine what sanctification of the mundane should mean. Sanctification means to make sacred. Mundane means present World. I would like sanctification of the mundane to mean, regard the present earthly life to be sacred.

That's why I quoted the Story of Jesus in the House of Martha and Mary in post #10.

The whole "as above, so below" would tend to disappear from consideration if modern cosmology indicates that there is no sacred "up there" either from the above the firmament or from some outer ring around the Earth to come "down to Earth".

So, if it is not evil to question religious beliefs, is it also not evil to question the cult figure about whom a religion is focused?

I would have thought questioning religious beliefs and their central figures is critical thinking as opposed to evil.
 
There are no inherently bad questions, just answers we refuse to learn from. 

Seems to me that "sanctifying the mundane and finding sacredness in everyday life" doesn't require a cosmic "above" either.
 
Morality isn't dictated by authority.

More like guided by reflection and empathy.

Never mind the practical consequences in the real world. 

Which i need to go play in for a spell.

I bid you all good day for now.  

[UltraBudgie]

We need a definition of what they meant by 'world'?

In the Textus Receptus, is

4:8 Πάλιν παραλαμβάνει αὐτὸν ὁ διάβολος εἰς ὄρος ὑψηλὸν λίαν καὶ δείκνυσιν αὐτῷ πάσας τὰς βασιλείας τοῦ κόσμου καὶ τὴν δόξαν αὐτῶν

Kosmos (κόσμου) being described by Strong's g2889 as:

IV. the circle of the earth, the earth

Not the sphere of the earth, note, but the circle, as a sphere would not be completely visible from any mountain.

[Bootless]

For #2, from the Lost sayings of Jesus, which mentions only heaven and earth and 'as above so below' type of spirituality.

"Call not any one “Father” on earth, for on earth there are rulers [only]; in heaven is the Father from whom is every descent both in heaven and on earth."

"If ye make not the below into the above and the above into the below, the right into the left and the left into the right, the before into the behind [and the behind into the before], ye shall not enter into the kingdom of God."

Lost Sayings of Jesus; Fragment of a Lost Gospel – hipmonkey

It appears in the quotes below, that I can only see Heaven and Earth being referred, and the firmament being the dividing factor between the two, but the firmament being named as Heaven. So it appears the firmament is all that is beyond the Earth and it's waters.

"1. Genesis 1:6 – “And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.”
2. Genesis 1:8 – “And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.”"

So this is very big! We can look at it mythologically and mundanely.
Jesus, it seems obvious, had a firmament idea, or at best a geocentric view.

We have read that Jesus was preaching the kingdom of Ouranos, the God most high. But to us Ouranos is the blue sky as we perceive it with our eyes. Nyx (night) is still with us, even in modern cosmology. Sun beaming through atmosphere gives us the blue sky, but only during the day. Ouranos was believed to be Most High. Sure Zeus is called Father of all, but that's a title won through battle. Ouranos is the father/grandfather of Zeus.

But does modern cosmology even leave us a most high?

---------
Is Father some holy title reserved for deity alone?

A story:
When I was a 16 year old juvenile delinquent I smoked cigarettes, as was the custom for delinquents in those days.

My father caught me smoking in the back yard one day. He challenged me to a fight. So in the face of existential crisis I reasoned to myself: If I fight and lose then I must quit smoking. On the other hand if I fight and win then I can continue to smoke, but then I would have to leave my fathers house.

Upon further reasoning, I decided that a fight was not necessary. I could just quit smoking and continue living in my father's house.
-----
I get the impression that Jesus denigrated family values, a lot! Like "if you don't leave your father and mother then you are unworthy of the kingdom." That's like total BS to me. Makes no sense. Does it make sense to you?

[quintessentone]

What is ascension of the soul?

For me, it's my life's energies, with my consciousness and memories intact also as forms of energy, transmuted into another state of existence where, I hope, higher states may be accessed if desired, or a return to the earthly realm to fulfill one's needs for growth. I absolutely believe in an afterlife, but what awaits me there, I have yet to find out. I absolutely believe all energy transmutes and is never lost.

[Bootless]

Yes.  That was His whole purpose in coming from Heaven.

Look at what happened after the Last Supper.  He was with his apostles on the Mt of Olives in prayer when the crowd came to arrest Him and murder Him.   He spoke, power left Him, and everyone fell on the ground.  He could have stopped the murder.  He showed He had the power. But instead of stopping it, He willingly gave His life in sacrifice for sin.

And all of that was after the death of John the Baptist, which is what the question was referring to.

[quintessentone]

In the Textus Receptus, is

Kosmos (κόσμου) being described by Strong's g2889 as:

Not the sphere of the earth, note, but the circle, as a sphere would not be completely visible from any mountain.

No, not the universal definition. I meant when from whom said it from the previous post's context from scripture. Were they referring to other nations that could be seen in the distance from high atop a mountain considered the world or was the wrong word inserted/interpreted in scripture that was misrepresented as a universal world when it may have been the surrounding nations lands?

[quintessentone]

So this is very big! We can look at it mythologically and mundanely.
Jesus, it seems obvious, had a firmament idea, or at best a geocentric view.

We have read that Jesus was preaching the kingdom of Ouranos, the God most high. But to us Ouranos is the blue sky as we perceive it with our eyes. Nyx (night) is still with us, even in modern cosmology. Sun beaming through atmosphere gives us the blue sky, but only during the day. Ouranos was believed to be Most High. Sure Zeus is called Father of all, but that's a title won through battle. Ouranos is the father/grandfather of Zeus.

But does modern cosmology even leave us a most high?

---------
Is Father some holy title reserved for deity alone?

A story:
When I was a 16 year old juvenile delinquent I smoked cigarettes, as was the custom for delinquents in those days.

My father caught me smoking in the back yard one day. He challenged me to a fight. So in the face of existential crisis I reasoned to myself: If I fight and lose then I must quit smoking. On the other hand if I fight and win then I can continue to smoke, but then I would have to leave my fathers house.

Upon further reasoning, I decided that a fight was not necessary. I could just quit smoking and continue living in my father's house.
-----
I get the impression that Jesus denigrated family values, a lot! Like "if you don't leave your father and mother then you are unworthy of the kingdom." That's like total BS to me. Makes no sense. Does it make sense to you?

It makes sense to me when I take certain messaging of Jesus in the spiritual sense, not the physical or earthly sense.

[UltraBudgie]

No, not the universal definition. I meant when from whom said it from the previous post's context from scripture. Were they referring to other nations that could be seen in the distance from high atop a mountain considered the world or was the wrong word inserted/interpreted in scripture that was misrepresented as a universal world when it may have been the surrounding nations lands?

It is from the Gospel of Matthew.

The context is being shown all the nations of the world to rule without exception. The idea being that's everything.

Matthew is telling of Jesus' temptation in the desert, presumably second-hand. Thus, I interpret it to mean being taken to a vantage point and presented with all the principalities of this plane of existence (realm), rather than literally.

But that doesn't mean the earth isn't flat.

That this is how that concept was chosen to be expressed indicates the earth model or worldview of the times, perhaps.

2) Did he believe that the Firmament was a thing, like as in dome over a flat Earth?

[Bootless]

Getting back to the original topic and the questions posed therein.

Matthew 4:7-8

Now, isn't this Flat Earth doctrine? How could one see all the kingdoms of the world, from the top of any mountain, even an 'exceeding high' one? Wouldn't that imply no curvature?

If you want to call a narrative a doctrine. It would seem reasonable to assume that the author of Matthew had a flat Earth cosmology.

But

The devil is in the story, so let's get unreasonable.
Luckily, I looked up Duzakh when it was mentioned by IdeomotorPrisoner.

Duzakh is firstly the residence of Ahriman, the demons, and the drujes ("deceit, falsehood"). All atmospheric calamities are associated with it: snow, cold, hail, rain, burning heat, and so forth.

So: If Ahriman or the devil, if you prefer, can cause false visions, then was what was shown the real kingdoms of the World, or just an illusion of such?

And the way the author of Luke has it "showed Him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world." Luke 4:5.
So was the devil blowing the mind of Jesus?
or
maybe fasting for 40 days gave Jesus the clarity of mind to not have his mind blown?