'No big deal" Just an atmospheric phenomenon' some outages green energy absolved

[ArMaP]

https://x.com/i/grok/share/Gx5PTrV4vfERUGWSs9HAiM6lE

 relevant web pages at the link

Some of those links are hardly relevant, as they are from April 29.

PS: what's Grok?

[putnam6]

Some of those links are hardly relevant, as they are from April 29.

PS: what's Grok?

Apologies, ArMap I wasn't debunking your post? I was searching for the report using (Grok) is X.com's AI assist tool

You suggested, "You couldn't find the report." I was hoping Grok could find the report or offer more information.  

Additionally, as my post suggested, I still had questions, and

Grok had the answers I was seeking, and I included the summary in the thread, no more, no less

 I didn't suggest or infer that all the links are relevant; I just mentioned that these were the links used for Grok's summary. When AI does a summary, of course, it will pull information from the day of the event, if for no other reason than to provide background, which is why links are from early on. But for what it is worth, Grok AI also pulls from posts on X.com, usually from legit and incident-specific sources, note the date JUNE 18th 





Where else is the summary inaccurate?

Grok AI, along with all the other AI tools, includes thier disclaimer for thier limitations.

My mistake is that I thought AI Assist tools and their limitations were more common knowledge

As a reference, Ive asked Grok, and below is its answer
 What are your limitations in answering questions?
 
As Grok, I'm designed to be as truthful and helpful as possible, but I do have some limitations:

• Knowledge Gaps: My knowledge is vast but not infinite. I might not have the latest info on very recent events or obscure topics, though I can search the web or X posts for real-time updates if needed.
  
• Subjectivity: For highly subjective questions (e.g., "What's the best movie?"), I can offer insights based on patterns, reviews, or data, but I lack personal taste or emotions to judge purely subjective matters.
  
• Complex Visual Analysis: While I can analyze images, I might struggle with highly abstract or context-dependent visuals (e.g., interpreting an ambiguous piece of art without clear context).
  
• Code Execution: I can generate and explain code, but I can't execute it in a live environment to debug or test in real-time, though I can visualize simple code outputs on a canvas if requested.
  
• Subscription Details: I don't have specifics on pricing or usage limits for xAI's SuperGrok or X premium subscriptions, so I'll redirect you to x.ai/grok or help.x.com for those.
  
• BigBrain Mode: My BigBrain mode isn't publicly available, so I can't use it to answer queries, even for subscribers.
  
• Grok 3.5: I’m Grok 3, and Grok 3.5 doesn’t exist for users yet, despite any claims otherwise. I’ll stick to what I can do with Grok 3’s capabilities.
  
• Bias and Errors: I strive for neutrality, but I might inadvertently reflect biases in my training data or misinterpret nuanced questions. If I’m unsure, I’ll say so and try to clarify.
  

If a question hits one of these limits, I’ll do my best to work around it, admit when I’m stumped, or point you to where you can find more info. 

Furthermore, I asked Grok if there were any new developments in the blackout 

https://x.com/i/grok/share/TwUa8XtAUrfkW0a6cvL3ReOtT
 
The most recent news on the Spain and Portugal blackout from April 28, 2025, comes from reports published on June 17-19, 2025. The Spanish government’s investigation concluded that the blackout, which affected 55-60 million people, was caused by a voltage surge triggering a cascade of grid failures, starting at a Granada substation and spreading to Badajoz and Seville. Key factors included:

• Grid Operator Errors: Red Eléctrica (REE) miscalculated the energy mix, with insufficient thermal power online to provide grid inertia, leading to instability during peak hours.
  
• Power Plant Failures: Some power plants failed to regulate voltage as required, exacerbating the surge.
  
• Renewable Disconnections: High solar and wind output (over 50% and 12% of Spain’s electricity, respectively) led to automatic shutdowns of renewable plants due to safety protocols, not as the primary cause.
  
• No Cyberattack: Both cyberattack and extreme weather theories were ruled out.
  

Spain’s grid operator, Redeia, disputed the government’s findings, claiming the system was in “normal conditions” and blaming power plants for improper disconnections. The European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity (ENTSO-E) is conducting a further investigation, with a report expected soon.
Implications for Net Zero:

• The blackout highlights the need for grid modernization to handle high renewable penetration. Low grid inertia from reduced thermal power exposed vulnerabilities, emphasizing the importance of synthetic inertia solutions (e.g., grid-forming inverters, battery storage).
  
• Misinformation blaming renewables has fueled debate, but experts clarify that poor planning, not renewables themselves, was the issue. Net Zero goals require enhanced grid flexibility, stronger interconnections (e.g., with France), and backup systems to ensure stability.
  
• The incident underscores the urgency of investing in resilient infrastructure to support clean energy transitions while maintaining public trust.
  

No newer developments have been reported since June 19, 2025.

[quintessentone]

Apologies, ArMap I wasn't debunking your post? I was searching for the report using (Grok) is X.com's AI assist tool

You suggested, "You couldn't find the report." I was hoping Grok could find the report or offer more information.  

Additionally, as my post suggested, I still had questions, and

Grok had the answers I was seeking, and I included the summary in the thread, no more, no less

 I didn't suggest or infer that all the links are relevant; I just mentioned that these were the links used for Grok's summary. When AI does a summary, of course, it will pull information from the day of the event, if for no other reason than to provide background, which is why links are from early on. But for what it is worth, Grok AI also pulls from posts on X.com, usually from legit and incident-specific sources, note the date JUNE 18th 

[Image: https://denyignorance.com/uploader/image...32-156.jpg]



Where else is the summary inaccurate?

Grok AI, along with all the other AI tools, includes thier disclaimer for thier limitations.

My mistake is that I thought AI Assist tools and their limitations were more common knowledge

As a reference, Ive asked Grok, and below is its answer
 What are your limitations in answering questions?
 
As Grok, I'm designed to be as truthful and helpful as possible, but I do have some limitations:

• Knowledge Gaps: My knowledge is vast but not infinite. I might not have the latest info on very recent events or obscure topics, though I can search the web or X posts for real-time updates if needed.
  
• Subjectivity: For highly subjective questions (e.g., "What's the best movie?"), I can offer insights based on patterns, reviews, or data, but I lack personal taste or emotions to judge purely subjective matters.
  
• Complex Visual Analysis: While I can analyze images, I might struggle with highly abstract or context-dependent visuals (e.g., interpreting an ambiguous piece of art without clear context).
  
• Code Execution: I can generate and explain code, but I can't execute it in a live environment to debug or test in real-time, though I can visualize simple code outputs on a canvas if requested.
  
• Subscription Details: I don't have specifics on pricing or usage limits for xAI's SuperGrok or X premium subscriptions, so I'll redirect you to x.ai/grok or help.x.com for those.
  
• BigBrain Mode: My BigBrain mode isn't publicly available, so I can't use it to answer queries, even for subscribers.
  
• Grok 3.5: I’m Grok 3, and Grok 3.5 doesn’t exist for users yet, despite any claims otherwise. I’ll stick to what I can do with Grok 3’s capabilities.
  
• Bias and Errors: I strive for neutrality, but I might inadvertently reflect biases in my training data or misinterpret nuanced questions. If I’m unsure, I’ll say so and try to clarify.
  

If a question hits one of these limits, I’ll do my best to work around it, admit when I’m stumped, or point you to where you can find more info. 

Furthermore, I asked Grok if there were any new developments in the blackout 

https://x.com/i/grok/share/TwUa8XtAUrfkW0a6cvL3ReOtT
 
The most recent news on the Spain and Portugal blackout from April 28, 2025, comes from reports published on June 17-19, 2025. The Spanish government’s investigation concluded that the blackout, which affected 55-60 million people, was caused by a voltage surge triggering a cascade of grid failures, starting at a Granada substation and spreading to Badajoz and Seville. Key factors included:

• Grid Operator Errors: Red Eléctrica (REE) miscalculated the energy mix, with insufficient thermal power online to provide grid inertia, leading to instability during peak hours.
  
• Power Plant Failures: Some power plants failed to regulate voltage as required, exacerbating the surge.
  
• Renewable Disconnections: High solar and wind output (over 50% and 12% of Spain’s electricity, respectively) led to automatic shutdowns of renewable plants due to safety protocols, not as the primary cause.
  
• No Cyberattack: Both cyberattack and extreme weather theories were ruled out.
  

Spain’s grid operator, Redeia, disputed the government’s findings, claiming the system was in “normal conditions” and blaming power plants for improper disconnections. The European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity (ENTSO-E) is conducting a further investigation, with a report expected soon.
Implications for Net Zero:

• The blackout highlights the need for grid modernization to handle high renewable penetration. Low grid inertia from reduced thermal power exposed vulnerabilities, emphasizing the importance of synthetic inertia solutions (e.g., grid-forming inverters, battery storage).
  
• Misinformation blaming renewables has fueled debate, but experts clarify that poor planning, not renewables themselves, was the issue. Net Zero goals require enhanced grid flexibility, stronger interconnections (e.g., with France), and backup systems to ensure stability.
  
• The incident underscores the urgency of investing in resilient infrastructure to support clean energy transitions while maintaining public trust.
  

No newer developments have been reported since June 19, 2025.

So, the reason is explained in the article you posted, that the fault was not in the technology, the fault was not modernizing the technology. This, again, validates what I said at the thread's beginning, that government was not doing their job.

[putnam6]

OK, if you say so

[quintessentone]

OK, if you say so

Your source says so, didn't you read it?

[putnam6]

Yes, I read the sources,

What I did not do was go back and search for, read, and confirm your initial thoughts. 

However, with your good standing as a member of Deny Ignorance, I am completely confident that one wouldn't make such a definitive declaration if it were false.

ergo

OK, if you say so. I concede the point.

[quintessentone]

Yes, I read the sources,

What I did not do was go back and search for, read, and confirm your initial thoughts. 

However, with your good standing as a member of Deny Ignorance, I am completely confident that one wouldn't make such a definitive declaration if it were false.

ergo

OK, if you say so. I concede the point.

That's not the reason why I was pointing it out. My point was government does not do their job in modernizing infrastructure and look at the what the devasting results that can come about.

The solar and wind technology is the way we should be going for the health of our planet and ourselves and I just wanted to make sure we all see where the faults may lay.

[putnam6]

That's not the reason why I was pointing it out. My point was government does not do their job in modernizing infrastructure and look at the what the devasting results that can come about.

The solar and wind technology is the way we should be going for the health of our planet and ourselves and I just wanted to make sure we all see where the faults may lay.

The government is inefficient

Im all for solar power, wind power, and electric vehicles etc., once governments have mastered the technology to efficiently and environmentally responsibly transition green energy with the "current" power grid. 

Till then, I prefer my green energy to glow

We are already adding broken wind turbine engines and blades and solar panels to our already overfilled landfills just 10 plus years into the Green Energy movement







https://x.com/i/grok/share/v4vh70baasLlXRQL4LTsMn4DH

 
Solar power, wind power, and electric vehicle (EV) battery production are key components of green energy, but they have environmental and practical downsides. Below is a concise overview of the environmental impacts and challenges associated with these technologies, focusing on their effects on the environment, mining for EV battery minerals, and the disposal of worn-out wind turbines and solar panels.
Solar Power: Environmental and Practical Downsides

• Manufacturing Impacts:
  • Resource Extraction: Solar panels require materials like silicon, silver, aluminum, and rare earth metals (e.g., indium, tellurium). Mining these materials can lead to habitat destruction, soil erosion, and water contamination. For example, quartz mining for silicon produces dust and uses significant water.
    
  • Energy-Intensive Production: Refining silicon and manufacturing panels is energy-intensive, often relying on fossil fuels in regions with coal-heavy grids, contributing to greenhouse gas emissions during production.
    
  • Toxic Chemicals: Production involves hazardous chemicals like hydrofluoric acid and cadmium telluride (in some thin-film panels), which can pollute water and soil if not properly managed.
    
• Land Use and Ecosystem Disruption:
  • Large-scale solar farms require significant land, potentially disrupting local ecosystems, wildlife habitats, and biodiversity. For example, desert installations in the U.S. Southwest have impacted endangered species like the desert tortoise.
    
  • Clearing land for solar farms can lead to deforestation or loss of arable land, especially in regions with competing land-use needs.
    
• Disposal and Recycling Challenges:
  • Lifespan and Waste: Solar panels last 20–30 years. Decommissioned panels create electronic waste (e-waste), with millions of tons projected globally by 2050.
    
  • Recycling Limitations: Recycling is costly and complex due to laminated glass and metal structures. Only about 10–20% of panels are recycled globally; many end up in landfills, risking leaching of toxic materials like lead or cadmium.
    
  • Hazardous Waste: Cadmium and other toxic substances in panels pose environmental risks if improperly disposed of, contaminating soil and groundwater.
    

Wind Power: Environmental and Practical Downsides

• Manufacturing and Resource Extraction:
  • Material Requirements: Wind turbines use steel, concrete, fiberglass, and rare earth metals (e.g., neodymium, dysprosium) for magnets in generators. Mining these materials causes environmental degradation, including deforestation, water pollution, and high carbon emissions.
    
  • Energy-Intensive Production: Producing massive turbine components (blades, towers) requires significant energy, often from fossil fuels, offsetting some environmental benefits during the lifecycle.
    
• Wildlife and Ecosystem Impacts:
  • Bird and Bat Mortality: Wind turbines kill birds and bats through blade collisions, with estimates of hundreds of thousands of deaths annually in the U.S. alone. Migratory species and bats are particularly vulnerable.
    
  • Habitat Disruption: Onshore wind farms require land clearing, fragmenting habitats. Offshore wind farms can disrupt marine ecosystems, including fish migration and marine mammal behavior, due to noise from construction and operation.
    
  • Noise and Visual Pollution: Turbines generate low-frequency noise, potentially affecting nearby wildlife and human communities. Visual impacts can harm local ecosystems indirectly by reducing tourism or property values.
    
• Disposal and Recycling Challenges:
  • Blade Waste: Turbine blades, made of composite materials like fiberglass and epoxy, are difficult to recycle due to their size (up to 100 meters) and complex composition. Globally, thousands of blades are decommissioned annually, often ending up in landfills or incinerated, releasing pollutants.
    
  • Lifespan: Turbines last 20–25 years, requiring replacement or repowering, which generates additional waste and resource demands.
    
  • Limited Recycling Infrastructure: Recycling options for blades are emerging (e.g., grinding for cement additives), but scalability is limited, and most regions lack adequate facilities.
    

EV Battery Minerals: Mining and Environmental Downsides

• Mining Impacts:
  • Key Minerals: EV batteries rely on lithium, cobalt, nickel, graphite, and manganese. Mining these minerals has significant environmental costs:
    • Lithium: Extracted from brine or hard rock, lithium mining in places like Chile and Australia depletes groundwater, dries wetlands, and harms local ecosystems. For example, the Atacama Desert’s lithium operations use 65% of the region’s water, affecting indigenous communities and wildlife.
      
    • Cobalt: Over 60% of cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo, where artisanal mining causes deforestation, soil erosion, and water contamination with heavy metals. Child labor and human rights issues are also prevalent.
      
    • Nickel: Nickel mining, especially in Indonesia, leads to deforestation, mangrove destruction, and marine pollution from tailings.
      
  • High Carbon Footprint: Processing minerals like nickel and lithium is energy-intensive, contributing to emissions if powered by fossil fuels.
    
• Water and Pollution:
  • Mining operations consume vast amounts of water, straining resources in arid regions. For example, producing one ton of lithium requires ~500,000 gallons of water.
    
  • Tailings and chemical runoff from mines pollute rivers and soil with heavy metals, harming aquatic life and agriculture.
    
• Social and Ethical Concerns:
  • Mining in developing nations often displaces communities, destroys livelihoods, and exacerbates poverty. For instance, cobalt mining in Congo has displaced thousands and polluted farmland.
    
  • Ethical issues, like child labor in cobalt mines, raise questions about the sustainability of EV supply chains.
    
• Disposal and Recycling Challenges:
  • Battery Lifespan: EV batteries last 8–15 years, after which they lose capacity. Decommissioned batteries create hazardous waste if not properly managed.
    
  • Recycling Limitations: Only ~5–10% of lithium-ion batteries are recycled globally due to high costs, technical complexity, and lack of infrastructure. Recycling recovers cobalt and nickel more effectively than lithium, which is often lost.
    
  • Environmental Risks: Improper disposal can leak toxic chemicals (e.g., lithium, cobalt) into soil and water, posing long-term risks.
    

Cross-Cutting Challenges for Green Energy

• Energy Storage Dependency:
  • Solar and wind are intermittent, requiring energy storage (e.g., lithium-ion batteries), which amplifies mining and disposal issues. Alternatives like pumped hydro or flow batteries have their own environmental impacts (e.g., land use, resource demands).
    
• Carbon Payback Period:
  • The carbon footprint of manufacturing, transporting, and installing solar panels, wind turbines, and EV batteries can take years to offset through clean energy generation or emissions savings. For example, a wind turbine’s payback period is ~6–12 months, but this varies by location and grid mix.
    
• Global Supply Chain Vulnerabilities:
  • Reliance on a few countries for critical minerals (e.g., China for rare earths, Congo for cobalt) creates geopolitical risks and environmental inconsistencies, as regulations vary widely.
    
• End-of-Life Management:
  • The lack of standardized recycling systems for solar panels, turbine blades, and EV batteries leads to mounting waste. Developing circular economies for these technologies is critical but currently underdeveloped.
    

Mitigation Efforts and Context

• Recycling Innovations: Advances in recycling (e.g., hydrometallurgical processes for batteries, blade repurposing) could reduce waste, but scaling requires investment and policy support.
  
• Sustainable Mining: Some companies are exploring lower-impact mining (e.g., direct lithium extraction) or sourcing cobalt from ethical suppliers, but these are not yet widespread.
  
• Policy and Regulation: Stronger global standards for e-waste management, mining practices, and recycling could mitigate impacts. For example, the EU mandates battery recycling targets.
  
• Trade-Offs: While green energy has downsides, fossil fuels cause far greater environmental harm (e.g., oil spills, coal mining, air pollution). The transition to renewables and EVs is critical for climate goals, but it must address these challenges to be truly sustainable.
  

Conclusion
Solar and wind power, along with EV batteries, offer cleaner alternatives to fossil fuels but come with environmental costs. Mining for minerals like lithium and cobalt degrades ecosystems, consumes water, and pollutes. Manufacturing is energy-intensive, and disposing of worn-out panels, turbines, and batteries creates hazardous waste due to limited recycling. Wildlife impacts, land use, and ethical concerns further complicate their sustainability. Addressing these downsides requires improved recycling, sustainable mining practices, and robust policies to minimize environmental harm while scaling green energy.

[quintessentone]

[Image: https://media0.giphy.com/media/tELuxgGso.../giphy.gif]
The government is inefficient

Im all for solar power, wind power, and electric vehicles etc., once governments have mastered the technology to efficiently and environmentally responsibly transition green energy with the "current" power grid. 

Governments need to keep on top of this technology as it is improving by leaps and bounds, especially solar power. 

But you are right, the transition needs to be done responsibly and as with everything technological, it's complicated.

[BeyondKnowledge]

Governments need to keep on top of this technology as it is improving by leaps and bounds, especially solar power. 

But you are right, the transition needs to be done responsibly and as with everything technological, it's complicated.

Government needs to keep out of the energy industry as much as possible. 

Let the clean, cost effective technologies evole to the point where they are useful without all the government interference.

Cureent solar and wind are dirtier than what they are replacing. The increases mining of toxic substances. The lack of recycling of the materials that don't last anywhere near claims.

When the energy technology is ready to advance to take over for reasons of economy and environment, only then should it be adopted in such a large scale as is being forced to be attempted now.

We are throwing out the proven technologies years before the replacements are ready.