Understanding Christian Zionism and Newton

[annonentity]

I would think as believing in democracy you would support Isreal that has human rights not even conceived by its neighbors, and is a democracy where many of its enemies are a theocracy.

like it or not.  Israel is at war with enemies that if gained control would strip away human rights and even the most basic elements of democracy.  It’s not that hard to see Isreal is fighting theocracy to maintain its democracy.

  The Israelis are on the streets protesting in droves. They are well aware of what is going down. Bibi is dodging the courts to stay out of jail, and trying to change the constitution to do it. The whole of the western world has been hijacked by these people and the longer it goes on the more obvious it becomes to the average Joe,  and gets closer to a tipping point.The Shah of Iran talks about Israel lobby in the US in 1976. Why won't Leaders say who's in charge? - YouTube

  and here we have reports of BIbi so under attack that he has problems moving around. It sounds like he has enemies getting closer. ISRAELIS TARGET NETANYAHU HOME IN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT - 153 News - Because Censorship Kills

[quintessentone]

how do you know they support israel because of zionism? maybe they are just like "gee golly whiz israel is so great and fair to all religions and nice to everyone and we love them because they're democracy and we're democracy and that's just peachy so we're besties", rather than "israel sucks and murders kids and lies all the time but i guess we'll keep giving them money and votes in favour them because god says so"?

is there like a poll or something?

Do you really want me to post an ex-Isreali Soldier spilling the beans about the realities in Gaza and the West Bank? I just can't take it any more.

[UltraBudgie]

Do you really want me to post an ex-Isreali Soldier spilling the beans about the realities in Gaza and the West Bank? I just can't take it any more.

assuming you mean this article? but no i mean that there's many reasons americans support zionism probably, such as the two i mentioned or things such as "israel is dealing with those muslim terrorists the way those demons deserve", "they're useful for our real agenda", etc., many of which are orthogonal to chritianity, as wallflower mentioned, that is there's difference between christian zionism and zionism by those who happen t be christians, i was wondering if there's polls or anything that make the differnce clear. goodness knows evangelicalism has many other culdesecs. anyway if there's beans no reason t get particularly worried about 'spilling' them haha, but sorry if i inadvertantly added to upset only underscoring a contrast

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

The Israelis are on the streets protesting in droves. They are well aware of what is going down. The whole of the western world has been hijacked by these people and the longer it goes on the more obvious it becomes to the average Joe,  and gets closer to a tipping point.

How do you know that isn't your westernized projection upon what Israelis value?

Are you sure your angle is what they're protesting?

And hijacked by what people exactly?

Hardline Zionist Israelis?

People that have given up on diplomacy with terrorists who hijack their aid and give it out based on loyalty to Hamas and hatred of Israel?

Would you give terrorists aid to give out based on their pledge to destroy you? Does that angle get covered in the press? That seems like a self-inflicted war crime. They're withholding aid tontheirvown and using it to persuade obedience.  And while he's waiting for his rations, little Amir can watch a cartoon AK47 song Jihad songs about killing jews. 

Israelis? Have you ever talked to any?

Israelis are mad because The Netanyahu Administration is taking too long to bring home remaining hostages, and all Hamas has to do is confine them in a secret tunnel and stall that endlessly to turn the world in their favor.

They aren't really protesting "war pigs hijacking the Western World" they're protesting ONE pig that they feel is incapable of bringing home the remaining hostages or dealing with Hamas without escalation.

You do Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, and everyone that wants Israel wiped out a huge favor with the "war criminals have hijacked the western world" mantra. You do exactly what holding the hostages was meant to do, make Gaza the victim, and consider Israel the aggressor that needs to be confronted.

To use that to say that Israel is turning against Zionism (or defending itself with force) ignores that over 90% of Israeli Jews still identity as zionists.

Sure you might have dissaffected people doing the expose thing, but Al Jazeera (and left leaning Israeli media) loves to put IDF soldiers on the air to side with the war crime narrative. They'll seek out the rare instances and say it happens all the time, like immigrants eating migratory waterfowl.

Exactly the playbook Stars and Stripes used when writing stories about defecting Vietcong soldiers.

[quintessentone]

assuming you mean this article? but no i mean that there's many reasons americans support zionism probably, such as the two i mentioned or things such as "israel is dealing with those muslim terrorists the way those demons deserve", "they're useful for our real agenda", etc., many of which are orthogonal to chritianity, as wallflower mentioned, that is there's difference between christian zionism and zionism by those who happen t be christians, i was wondering if there's polls or anything that make the differnce clear. goodness knows evangelicalism has many other culdesecs. anyway if there's beans no reason t get particularly worried about 'spilling' them haha, but sorry if i inadvertantly added to upset only underscoring a contrast

I do not mean that article, I mean the reality of what is happening.

"Palestinian people going to the food stations and dealing with those Israeli Zionists killing them" the way those innocent children deserve... is that what you meant? Want to hear from an exIDF Solider what really went on?

It has been exposed now, there is nowhere to hide.

Polls won't tell you anything unless the questions are posed to the actual Palestinian people experiencing genocide...what do you think the majority opinion will tell us?

[UltraBudgie]

I do not mean that article, I mean the reality of what is happening.

"Palestinian people going to the food stations and dealing with those Israeli Zionists killing them" the way those innocent children deserve... is that what you meant? Want to hear from an exIDF Solider what really went on?

It has been exposed now, there is nowhere to hide.

Polls won't tell you anything unless the questions are posed to the actual Palestinian people experiencing genocide...what do you think the majority opinion will tell us?

well far be it from me to accuse haaretz of showing the reality of what is happening haha but i thought that article with non-ex idf soldiers interviewed had some relevance:

Israeli soldiers in Gaza told Haaretz that the army has deliberately fired at Palestinians near aid distribution sites over the past month.

Conversations with officers and soldiers reveal that commanders ordered troops to shoot at crowds to drive them away or disperse them, even though it was clear they posed no threat.

One soldier described the situation as a total breakdown of the Israel Defense Forces' ethical codes in Gaza.

According to the Hamas-run Health Ministry in Gaza, 549 people have been killed near aid centers and in areas where residents were waiting for UN food trucks since May 27. Over 4,000 have been wounded, but the exact number of those killed or injured by IDF fire remains unclear.

[etc etc ...]
non-paywall link

but the polls i was mentioning were with regard to support for christian zionism among american evangelicals -- how many would support the stuff in the article anyway, without the christian aspect, just because they're americans or whatever, and how many are only behind it because some preacher says so? it wasn't clear how much of an influence the godstuff has, given that a large swath of people in america (appear!) to support it anyway. i say appear because there may be somewhat of a bubblepop like with the election in new york and such.

edit: but pls add links if you have them?

[quintessentone]

well far be it from me to accuse haaretz of showing the reality of what is happening haha but i thought that article with non-ex idf soldiers interviewed had some relevance:


but the polls i was mentioning were with regard to support for christian zionism among american evangelicals -- how many would support the stuff in the article anyway, without the christian aspect, just because they're americans or whatever, and how many are only behind it because some preacher says so? it wasn't clear how much of an influence the godstuff has, given that a large swath of people in america (appear!) to support it anyway. i say appear because there may be somewhat of a bubblepop like with the election in new york and such.

edit: but pls add links if you have them?

There are no links to be added when it comes to manipulation, brainwashing through religion or through hate, not to mention big, I mean big sums of money.

[UltraBudgie]

There are no links to be added when it comes to manipulation, brainwashing through religion or through hate, not to mention big, I mean big sums of money.

oh, well yeah, that's true


edit: but there should be

[Sirius]

Guess I'm joining the thread again. With bi-polar religions you will get whatever your imagination can conjure up both at the left and the right end. Debating the exitance or the purpose of whatever extreme group is pointless. If you tray and stop one you are fighting a hydra. The only way to exert control over such things in infiltration.

Sure you can gather pitchforks and torches and sometimes that is justified, but a new order is already rising. The system itself is broken.

[annonentity]

How do you know that isn't your westernized projection upon what Israelis value?

Are you sure your angle is what they're protesting?

And hijacked by what people exactly?

Hardline Zionist Israelis?

People that have given up on diplomacy with terrorists who hijack their aid and give it out based on loyalty to Hamas and hatred of Israel?

Would you give terrorists aid to give out based on their pledge to destroy you? Does that angle get covered in the press? That seems like a self-inflicted war crime. They're withholding aid tontheirvown and using it to persuade obedience.  And while he's waiting for his rations, little Amir can watch a cartoon AK47 song Jihad songs about killing jews. 

Israelis? Have you ever talked to any?

Israelis are mad because The Netanyahu Administration is taking too long to bring home remaining hostages, and all Hamas has to do is confine them in a secret tunnel and stall that endlessly to turn the world in their favor.

They aren't really protesting "war pigs hijacking the Western World" they're protesting ONE pig that they feel is incapable of bringing home the remaining hostages or dealing with Hamas without escalation.

You do Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, and everyone that wants Israel wiped out a huge favor with the "war criminals have hijacked the western world" mantra. You do exactly what holding the hostages was meant to do, make Gaza the victim, and consider Israel the aggressor that needs to be confronted.

To use that to say that Israel is turning against Zionism (or defending itself with force) ignores that over 90% of Israeli Jews still identity as zionists.

Sure you might have dissaffected people doing the expose thing, but Al Jazeera (and left leaning Israeli media) loves to put IDF soldiers on the air to side with the war crime narrative. They'll seek out the rare instances and say it happens all the time, like immigrants eating migratory waterfowl.

Exactly the playbook Stars and Stripes used when writing stories about defecting Vietcong soldiers.

  The mess is so necrotic now all sides are tainted with the Karma that ensues. Even an idiot knows if you kill women and children the nearest and dearest are now your deepest enemies until revenge is sated. Thats why this mess is constructed for a result because that was the end game manipulated paid for with the usual end result calculated by those not emotionally involved.