Trump says US may "completely" cut income tax due to tariff revenue

[putnam6]

I think there is a degree of that, especially with people wanting to be able to move easily.

But I don't think not wanting a family means people don't want to buy. Rent is expensive, and that can be going to equity instead. Reality is houses are over double in a lot of places from where they were just a few years ago. 

I think more of that has to do with private equity buying so many houses to rent them out. 

This goes back to what I said earlier though. I think the divide on who thinks the economy is doing well is generational. Young people aren't making much more than they were a few years ago, but normal things are more expensive, as are costs of living. Older generations have assets, and those assets look like they're performing well on paper. 

The job market looks to be taking a dip at the moment now too. Though, those reports were cancelled from the government, so we only have the ADP one to go off of. If AI takes a dip, it will likely bring down the whole stock market as well. Nividia is 16% of our GDP at the moment.

LOL okay Eyore... FFS 



Well, I'll be OK... Ive learned to be content and frugal AF 

As for the starving masses out there, remember, canned dog food is perfectly edible for humans  
Alpo is 69 cents a can

[CriticalStinker]

LOL okay Eyore... FFS 

[Image: https://media0.giphy.com/media/Evp4SYXEt5oly/giphy.gif]

Well, I'll be OK... Ive learned to be content and frugal AF 

As for the starving masses out there, remember, canned dog food is perfectly edible for humans  
Alpo is 69 cents a can

[Video: https://youtu.be/_eCvvfU44_E?si=_bndmpnkbzCDk1Ak]

It's not apocalyptic, but it's not good either. 

The context of the thread is completely getting rid of income tax while we're going up in debt as a nation. We've talked about maybe we could increase the tariffs to counter that, and that would still wouldn't be reducing debt. That doesn't even take into account the 2k check he's said is going out next year which the tariffs might not even cover.

This is all just simple math. We're acting as if we have had many years of good times where we can do this, but we haven't.

[putnam6]

It's not apocalyptic, but it's not good either. 

The context of the thread is completely getting rid of income tax while we're going up in debt as a nation. We've talked about maybe we could increase the tariffs to counter that, and that would still wouldn't be reducing debt. That doesn't even take into account the 2k check he's said is going out next year which the tariffs might not even cover.

This is all just simple math. We're acting as if we have had many years of good times where we can do this, but we haven't.

LOL, just try not to discuss the economy with any of our retailers.

It's always been simple math; nothing has changed.

The economy was in the shitter in the 70s, in the 80s we had the aforementioned 9.25% interest rate, it's a cycle, it goes up, it goes down.

Ive seen worse, see no need to pretend it's an emergency 

[CriticalStinker]

LOL, just try not to discuss the economy with any of our retailers.

It's always been simple math; nothing has changed.

The economy was in the shitter in the 70s, in the 80s we had the aforementioned 9.25% interest rate, it's a cycle, it goes up, it goes down.

Ive seen worse, see no need to pretend it's an emergency 


[Image: https://denyignorance.com/uploader/image...f3487e.jpg]

I just said it's not apocalyptic. 

But the whole context of the thread is can we cut revenue right now. I laid out my points on why I think that is a bad idea. I even noted that I'd love for it to happen, after we adjust the budget to allow for it. 

I guess I just find it kind of odd the nation is positioning to do victory laps when we still haven't addressed core problems we've known about for a long time. Typically the best way to enact things is to measure the change we've implemented, then adjust. I don't think a 9% boost in sales on one holiday is enough to dramatically cut revenue, and hope that the stimulus provided to the economy will be enough to rectify glaring issues.

We're going to be paying more on interest than any other expenditure soon. That is just money gone, to nothing. We don't get anything for that, it's just payments towards irresponsible periods of time in our history. And rather than trying to address that, the conversation would make the problem worse. I think this is the generational divide again. Many are willing to let that happen because it would benefit the here and not at the expense for the future. Many wouldn't be around for that future when we have to reconcile the decisions. I likely will be.

[putnam6]

I just said it's not apocalyptic. 

But the whole context of the thread is can we cut revenue right now. I laid out my points on why I think that is a bad idea. I even noted that I'd love for it to happen, after we adjust the budget to allow for it. 

I guess I just find it kind of odd the nation is positioning to do victory laps when we still haven't addressed core problems we've known about for a long time. Typically the best way to enact things is to measure the change we've implemented, then adjust. I don't think a 9% boost in sales on one holiday is enough to dramatically cut revenue, and hope that the stimulus provided to the economy will be enough to rectify glaring issues.

We're going to be paying more on interest than any other expenditure soon. That is just money gone, to nothing. We don't get anything for that, it's just payments towards irresponsible periods of time in our history. And rather than trying to address that, the conversation would make the problem worse. I think this is the generational divide again. Many are willing to let that happen because it would benefit the here and not at the expense for the future. Many wouldn't be around for that future when we have to reconcile the decisions. I likely will be.

Im sorry you are struggling right now, and are occupied with concern over the looming recession that is on the horizon 

Ive been there, still am, but it's lightyears better than just 3-4 years ago...

But I guess I need to see if my high school belt still fits around my neck, huh

[CriticalStinker]

Im sorry you are struggling right now, and are occupied with concern over the looming recession that is on the horizon 

Ive been there, still am, but it's lightyears better than just 3-4 years ago...

But I guess I need to see if my high school belt still fits around my neck, huh

I'm actually in a pretty cozy position myself at the moment. I'm thankful for that. 

But my personal position doesn't change the national one. Our debt has gone up over 10x since I was born, and there has been very little done to try and address that aside from lip service. Those same ones who offer the lip service add to the problem once they win, and that's true for both sides of the aisle. 

I could advocate for some of these decisions to happen, and I'd likely benefit in the short term. I have a lot of exposure to the stock market, and other assets that would see a short term boom if some of this passed. But I would be taking from future generations, and I don't need to. We could have more sensible policy, and I could still continue being comfortable, so that's where I'll put my advocacy. 

The measure to life for me isn't what's in front of us right now, it's that we leave things in better shape for those we leave behind. I think societally we've lost sight of that, and overall become more selfish. I've been surprised at the people I've known all my life adopting a "F@#% it, I'm gonna get mine" mentality. 

That's just my view though. I know it gets misunderstood as a panicking mentality, or expecting something horrible to happen. To me it's just an opinion. No different than when I handle my finances, I make sure to minimize debt as much as possible. Most of my economic pain is from not spending my money, but putting it to work for myself. If I truly believed that the economic apocalypse was right around the corner, I wouldn't have most of my assets in stock right now. But I know that both parties will keep the stock market propped up at all costs, even if it means putting the country into debt. So my money in the market is a hedge for the ramifications of said policy will likely get in the future.

[putnam6]

I'm actually in a pretty cozy position myself at the moment. I'm thankful for that. 

But my personal position doesn't change the national one. Our debt has gone up over 10x since I was born, and there has been very little done to try and address that aside from lip service. Those same ones who offer the lip service add to the problem once they win, and that's true for both sides of the aisle. 

I could advocate for some of these decisions to happen, and I'd likely benefit in the short term. I have a lot of exposure to the stock market, and other assets that would see a short term boom if some of this passed. But I would be taking from future generations, and I don't need to. We could have more sensible policy, and I could still continue being comfortable, so that's where I'll put my advocacy. 

The measure to life for me isn't what's in front of us right now, it's that we leave things in better shape for those we leave behind. I think societally we've lost sight of that, and overall become more selfish. I've been surprised at the people I've known all my life adopting a "F@#% it, I'm gonna get mine" mentality. 

That's just my view though. I know it gets misunderstood as a panicking mentality, or expecting something horrible to happen. To me it's just an opinion. No different than when I handle my finances, I make sure to minimize debt as much as possible. Most of my economic pain is from not spending my money, but putting it to work for myself. If I truly believed that the economic apocalypse was right around the corner, I wouldn't have most of my assets in stock right now. But I know that both parties will keep the stock market propped up at all costs, even if it means putting the country into debt. So my money in the market is a hedge for the ramifications of said policy will likely get in the future.

Glad you are doing well... the point is inflation is well within historical ranges 

An estimated 65% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck; if it were critical, it would be obvious  

US inflation is at 3% 

In 2024 last December was 2.9% updated numbers have been delayed from the shutdown; for now, it's up .1% even with the terrible tariffs through September

For perspective,  11 years since 2000 have had a monthly average inflation of over 2.8.% or more, it's not a big deal.

Again, any inflationary losses for us are covered in 2025 with the lowering of gasoline prices. Ive run our expenses

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/21/fed-wont...lease.html

The Bureau of Labor Statistics said it was canceling the release of the October consumer price index, leaving the Federal Reserve without a key piece of inflation data to ponder when it next decides on interest rates on Dec. 10.
The CPI data, previously scheduled to be released on Nov. 7, was canceled because the government shutdown made it impossible for the BLS to “retroactively collect” certain parts of survey data, the agency said on its website.
November’s CPI data, previously scheduled to be released on Dec. 10, will now be released on Dec. 18 after the Fed decision, the BLS said

[sahgwa]

LOL okay Eyore... FFS 

[Image: https://media0.giphy.com/media/Evp4SYXEt5oly/giphy.gif]

Well, I'll be OK... Ive learned to be content and frugal AF 

As for the starving masses out there, remember, canned dog food is perfectly edible for humans  
Alpo is 69 cents a can

[Video: https://youtu.be/_eCvvfU44_E?si=_bndmpnkbzCDk1Ak]

Whenever I see those eat frugally/cheaply videos or lists, and also see the stuff on sale at the market I say to myself , pay money now or pay money later but you will be paying it.

That is my way of saying, I would rather spend more money on quality organic food than pay triple or ten times the cost in medical bills down the line because I stuffed myself with overly salted, fatty, or sugary crap that was cheaper.  Not even going down the whole GMO cancer road.

[putnam6]

Whenever I see those eat frugally/cheaply videos or lists, and also see the stuff on sale at the market I say to myself , pay money now or pay money later but you will be paying it.

That is my way of saying, I would rather spend more money on quality organic food than pay triple or ten times the cost in medical bills down the line because I stuffed myself with overly salted, fatty, or sugary crap that was cheaper.  Not even going down the whole GMO cancer road.

Haha, I was exaggerating for effect... as I matured, yes, I can feed myself healthily and frugally

But in my youth, we'd hunt and camp out and use Dollar General stuff all the time. Eats and otherwise... and there have been various times when finances were tight, you do what you have to do.

Sure, I had a lot of Ramen, but  I learned to add frozen veggies, an egg, and kimchi, sometimes that thats all you can do in an extended stay hotel.

[putnam6]

I think there is a degree of that, especially with people wanting to be able to move easily.

But I don't think not wanting a family means people don't want to buy. Rent is expensive, and that can be going to equity instead. Reality is houses are over double in a lot of places from where they were just a few years ago. 

I think more of that has to do with private equity buying so many houses to rent them out. 

This goes back to what I said earlier though. I think the divide on who thinks the economy is doing well is generational. Young people aren't making much more than they were a few years ago, but normal things are more expensive, as are costs of living. Older generations have assets, and those assets look like they're performing well on paper. 

The job market looks to be taking a dip at the moment now too. Though, those reports were cancelled from the government, so we only have the ADP one to go off of. If AI takes a dip, it will likely bring down the whole stock market as well. Nividia is 16% of our GDP at the moment.

 I have daughters, nieces, and nephews. I talk to them all the time. They work their asses off, but they live within their means and do pretty well. 

Every younger generation has to find its way, but this younger generation doesn't subscribe to thier parents' or grandparents' ways, so yeah, a lot of them are flying blindly.  They can't balance a checkbook, they can't fill out a resume.

This is easier to learn than ever, but they haven't learned it. and if you don't have the basic skills