Trump 'authorizing Full Force, if necessary' as military deploys to another US city

[UltraBudgie]

“I think the most shocking thing is that we have found that more than $100 million in US taxpayer funding has flowed into these funding networks"

This does not surprise me. Since at least the 1960s, the US government has had a vested interest in keeping the American public at each other's throats. COINTELPRO is a drug they never quite kicked.

In the 21st century, this seems to have continue along two lines. First, "if we aren't the ones stirring up trouble, it will be our enemies who do". Own the battlespace. Second, as a provocation to preemptively attract and neutralize potential radicals. There's a reason the FBI seems "helpfully" involved in so many would-be terror plots from the get-go.

Putin was actually somewhat right, when he accused the United States Government of being at war with its own people.

[UKTRUTH]

I agree with many of those points.

ICE has a job to do, whether people like it or not, this is one of the major issues voted on. There is no question there is an illegal immigrant problem in the US, and it hurts both our country, and many of the immigrants who end up being exploited.

For people who violently interfere with that, I agree that's illegal and they should be arrested.

The issues I start to have is when people lose sight of how rights are supposed to be weighed. Individual>State>Federal. This is why the political compass is not just left and right. It is also authoritarian and libertarian.

Sadly, many who used to champion individual and state rights over federal, and trying to lessen the power of the federal government are happy to wield it now that they're in power. And while it may not be as alarming as many claim it is now with hyperbole, this is all a foundation.

The military is mainly just present. In most cases, they can't intervein due to posse comitatus. But, people are becoming desensitized to their mere presence, and it's becoming normal. I can appreciate the notion that in some places, crime is a large problem. There are cities I wouldn't go to. But I don't think federal military is the right tool for the mission. For one, our police is already a problem in some places. I think a lot of that is lack of training, and being underpaid. They don't know the laws they're supposed to enforce. Soldiers know far less than that, at best they get a couple weeks training.

The problem is, if these kinds of reactions become normalized, eventually someone will abuse them. That's just history of power, and people in power. The whole point of a lot of our constitution is to prevent that from even being a possibility, which is one of the reasons we have the 2nd amendment.

I don’t think this is a rights issue at all.
 Everyone has the right to protest, but not break the law.
 Federal law has supremacy in the constitution.
 Obstructing federal law is a crime. 
violence when protesting is a crime.

I think too many people have lost sight of what normal civil society in the West is all about.

conversations about rights and due process when it comes to illegals are nonsense.
 Due process is being arrested and then deported under order or put in trial (if the prosecutor so decides).
 That’s it.
 No illegal alien has the right not to be arrested, whether it’s off the street or in their home.

[CriticalStinker]

I don’t think this is a rights issue at all.
 Everyone has the right to protest, but not break the law.
 Federal law has supremacy in the constitution.
 Obstructing federal law is a crime. 
violence when protesting is a crime.

I think too many people have lost sight of what normal civil society in the West is all about.

conversations about rights and due process when it comes to illegals are nonsense.
 Due process is being arrested and then deported under order or put in trial (if the prosecutor so decides).
 That’s it.
 No illegal alien has the right not to be arrested, whether it’s off the street or in their home.

As I said, I’m not anti deportation. I also agree that people who break the law should be prosecuted.

The issues I noted is deployment of troops, mainly because it’s symbolic more than anything. They can’t enforce laws unless instructed by a governor. Even then, it’s less than ideal, reserved for emergencies considering they’ve had very little training for domestic policing. They don’t know as much as cops about rights, and that’s a low bar.

There are only a few hundred being sent in each case, something we could easily send federal agents instead. So I have to wonder what is the point of normalizing military presence in multiple cities.

Is it the end of the world? No. I’m not going to those cities and protesting ICE. There is little chance this will affect me. The probes is precedence. If we normalize military deployment for policing matters, what do future presidents do? 

We’ve had presidents worse than Trump, and we’ll have worse again. The reason we ask our politicians to color inside the lines is so that those after them have to as well. Also, when he’s had a few executive orders directly challenge the constitution, it doesn’t help his case.

[Vermilion]

As I said, I’m not anti deportation. I also agree that people who break the law should be prosecuted.

The issues I noted is deployment of troops, mainly because it’s symbolic more than anything. They can’t enforce laws unless instructed by a governor. Even then, it’s less than ideal, reserved for emergencies considering they’ve had very little training for domestic policing. They don’t know as much as cops about rights, and that’s a low bar.

There are only a few hundred being sent in each case, something we could easily send federal agents instead. So I have to wonder what is the point of normalizing military presence in multiple cities.

Is it the end of the world? No. I’m not going to those cities and protesting ICE. There is little chance this will affect me. The probes is precedence. If we normalize military deployment for policing matters, what do future presidents do? 

We’ve had presidents worse than Trump, and we’ll have worse again. The reason we ask our politicians to color inside the lines is so that those after them have to as well. Also, when he’s had a few executive orders directly challenge the constitution, it doesn’t help his case.

The guard isn’t policing anything.
They are there to protect federal agents and federal property from miscreants who are trying to stop ICE etc from doing their jobs.
ICE has been attacked and threatened for months just for doing their job.
If the local cops were doing their jobs, the guard wouldn’t need to be there.
There is no other group available to do this work.
You can’t just shit 1000 agents and deploy them around the country.
They don’t exist.

If you were an ICE agent or related to one, I’m sure you’d come off that fence.

[Kurokage]

https://www.alternet.org/trump-national-guard-military/

'Indication of dictatorship': Retired general sounds alarm over Trump's use of military.Former National Guard Vice Chief Major General Randy E. Manner strongly criticized President Donald Trump's deployment of National Guard troops to U.S. cities, saying it is a "full indication of dictatorship and intimidation in the use of the military."
During an appearance on CNN Wednesday, Manner compared the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officials conducting raids across the country to the Gestapo of 1930s Germany, adding that they "act like a mob."
The retired major general went on to say that the administration is “trying to create false flags" in which ICE agents are killed so it can secure a pretext to expand its use of the military.

I emboldened a line that I thought was very interesting and should really resonate with all members here.

[UltraBudgie]

https://www.alternet.org/trump-national-guard-military/

I emboldened a line that I thought was very interesting and should really resonate with all members here.

Wow. Way to calm down tensions and defuse violence against law enforcement by (checks notes) comparing them to the Gestapo.

Clear this up. Who is trying to create a false flag here?

[PorkChop96]

https://www.alternet.org/trump-national-guard-military/

I emboldened a line that I thought was very interesting and should really resonate with all members here.

Nobody is creating "false flags" that ICE agents are being killed.

They are, however, broadcasting the nationwide attacks on ICE agents and then sending in NG units to help better protect those agents and aid police forces. NG members are not being sent to police. 

If the cities that are having NG units sent to them, did a better job of actually policing and properly handling crime, they wouldn't have the need for NG presence.

[Kurokage]

Wow. Way to calm down tensions and defuse violence against law enforcement by (checks notes) comparing them to the Gestapo.

Clear this up. Who is trying to create a false flag here?

Well he is the Former National Guard Vice Chief Major General, if anyone's got a opinion worth listening to, he does, and if he feels that ICE are pretty much the US version of the Gestapo, then people protesting about their behaviour must have some merit?? Instead of trying to calm the situation, Trump sending in the National Guard is only adding more fuel to the fire.

[Kurokage]

Nobody is creating "false flags" that ICE agents are being killed.

They are, however, broadcasting the nationwide attacks on ICE agents and then sending in NG units to help better protect those agents and aid police forces. NG members are not being sent to police. 

If the cities that are having NG units sent to them, did a better job of actually policing and properly handling crime, they wouldn't have the need for NG presence.

He does state 'trying' to create false flags. This is a conspiracy site after all, and there's been plenty of discussions in the past on false flag attacks used to push a government agenda.

[CriticalStinker]

The guard isn’t policing anything.
They are there to protect federal agents and federal property from miscreants who are trying to stop ICE etc from doing their jobs.
ICE has been attacked and threatened for months just for doing their job.
If the local cops were doing their jobs, the guard wouldn’t need to be there.
There is no other group available to do this work.
You can’t just shit 1000 agents and deploy them around the country.
They don’t exist.

If you were an ICE agent or related to one, I’m sure you’d come off that fence.

I’m aware the guard isn’t policing anyone and made sure to make that clear. That’s why I said their deployment is largely symbolic. They haven’t had to intervene, so the question is if their deployment was necessary to begin with.

I agree that local law enforcement is inconsistent and sometimes defiant. But I don’t want to normalize the federal government imposing their authority over domestic crime.

Cities aren’t burning or war zones like the justification tried to paint it.

Trump won’t be president forever. Other people will have these powers. And even with Trump it should be scrutinized, especially after his remarks yesterday of taking away freedom of speech (in the context of burning the flag). But he said it in those terms. He also left to question what happens with habeas corpus.

We are approaching lines that once crossed, can’t be undone.