The Lesson At The Waterfall

[quintessentone]

So where are you with all of that? What good does it, or will it do you?

What is the point of reading that material and posting about it?

I am truly curious and coming from a different perspective, different from you or those monks.

I have a Zen Koan book at my bedside which I open now and again, randomly. I used to do the same thing with the Bible, open it randomly and see where it took me.

When I posted those two paradoxes, for me, it reminded me to stop, relax, meditate and/or delve deeper into the meanings of things in my life.

The first paradox, to me, has me thinking on how our minds do indeed create our reality, then my mind goes to quantum mechanics and pondering the true reality of nature.

The second paradox, reminded me of a haiku I wrote in 4th grade and won a prize, about a flower looking at the world, then my mind went to quantum mechanics again, or Einstein's 'spooky action at a distance', which reminded me of my younger days reading Einstein on the subway while going to work and people staring at me questiongly.

Living in that one moment through reading those two paradoxes has given me remembrance of - or a self-discovery of who I have always been - creative and inquisitive and a lifelong learner.

Why did I post about it? I just wanted to share and explore this type of gateway, perhaps, into a type of meditation, or non-binary thinking, or pondering life with the author of this thread.

Did any of these koans or paradoxes stir up anything in your mind?

[midicon]

I have a Zen Koan book at my bedside which I open now and again, randomly. I used to do the same thing with the Bible, open it randomly and see where it took me.

When I posted those two paradoxes, for me, it reminded me to stop, relax, meditate and/or delve deeper into the meanings of things in my life.

The first paradox, to me, has me thinking on how our minds do indeed create our reality, then my mind goes to quantum mechanics and pondering the true reality of nature.

The second paradox, reminded me of a haiku I wrote in 4th grade and won a prize, about a flower looking at the world, then my mind went to quantum mechanics again, or Einstein's 'spooky action at a distance', which reminded me of my younger days reading Einstein on the subway while going to work and people staring at me questiongly.

Living in that one moment through reading those two paradoxes has given me remembrance of - or a self-discovery of who I have always been - creative and inquisitive and a lifelong learner.

Why did I post about it? I just wanted to share and explore this type of gateway, perhaps, into a type of meditation, or non-binary thinking, or pondering life with the author of this thread.

Did any of these koans or paradoxes stir up anything in your mind?

Thank you for that considered reply Q. I was curious that's all.

It is different for me. I am the only dancer here.

[quintessentone]

Thank you for that considered reply Q. I was curious that's all.

It is different for me. I am the only dancer here.

Dancer, as in? dancing to the beat?

[midicon]

Dancer, as in? dancing to the beat?

[Image: https://media0.giphy.com/media/7SViU2zFX.../giphy.gif]

I don't seek to elevate myself in the slightest, quite the opposite really. I just like to be honest.

It doesn't matter. Thanks for replying.

[quintessentone]

I don't seek to elevate myself in the slightest, quite the opposite really. I just like to be honest.

It doesn't matter. Thanks for replying.

Well I don't understand what you are trying to relay and if it does not matter to you, then it does not matter to me. Sharing, enjoying and/or discussing Koan meanings is an exploratory venture to me and others here and if it elevates us in any way, then that is a good thing.

For anyone else that is interested:

"Once a Kōan is selected, practitioners can employ various techniques for contemplation and inquiry. These may include:

• Silent reflection – Allowing thoughts to surface without judgment.
  
• Verbal inquiry – Discussing the Kōan with a Zen master or fellow practitioners.
  
• Mindful meditation – Focusing on the Kōan during zazen, integrating it into the breath."
  

https://japanese.mythologyworldwide.com/...ner-peace/

[andy06shake]

This one time at band camp, many moons ago, in a previous life…
 
I must have been about 17 years old at the time.
 
I jumped off a waterfall, trying to impress some girls on holiday.
 
Three waterfalls in a row, about a 20–30 ft drop each. I did have a life jacket on, just in case.
 
So I go over and down without a hitch 1, 2, 3, with cheering and shouts of encouragement from the riverbank.

Thinking im a ticket and laping up the class clown admiration in spades.
 
But the river was moving fast and led out to sea...
 
It keeps pushing me further and further out, probably only 50 to 75 ft, but it feels like more.
 
Im swimming in place, doing the front crawl, going nowhere but backwards, fast.
 
Do you know what I learned that day and sharpish?

Swim sideways when you have to.
 
And it's a good metaphor for life.

You can't fight the current.

You need to work with it, if you wish to reach your destination in one piece...

[quintessentone]

Well I wanted to toss this koan into "Transgender Dukkha Attachment Thread #843" to screw with everyone.

I was going say "here is a koan about fluidity and what is real," or "why are the people who believe in afterlife, souls, and other shit they cant prove, enough to even "feel" it sometimes,  giving shit to the people that cross-identify? Talk about willfull delusions andd mental conditioning." 

But that would be too "adversarial" and too much fallacy, even for me, so  I went another direction there, and am now using "passive-aggression" here, I guess. 

But then I was left with a quasi-buddhist story about "anatman" and "anicca" and liked it too much to shelve it..

You know Ideo, I dove a little deeper into the koans about that specific topic and surprisingly they teach or present little nuggets of their wisdom or observations that one should never change who one truly is, rather self-discovery and acceptance seems to be the path. Transitioning into something else seems to be something that does not fit with this philosophy and flies in the face of those that seek to transition.

[midicon]

You know Ideo, I dove a little deeper into the koans about that specific topic and surprisingly they teach or present little nuggets of their wisdom or observations that one should never change who one truly is, rather self-discovery and acceptance seems to be the path. Transitioning into something else seems to be something that does not fit with this philosophy and flies in the face of those that seek to transition.

Given your insight and understanding why do you think you haven't 'experienced' the true intent behind the particular purpose of Koan resolution?

[quintessentone]

Given your insight and understanding why do you think you haven't 'experienced' the true intent behind the particular purpose of Koan resolution?

I use Koans as a tool not as a philosophy.

[midicon]

I use Koans as a tool not as a philosophy.

I can understand that but you know what I am asking.

Let me try again.

Do you believe that there is an underlying purpose behind the attempt to answer the Koan, other than what you use it for? 

If you do then would that not be the most important thing to address?