Some tidbits from my time in Israel

[BeTheGoddess]

First off domt order a pizza. Dietary laws mean their pizza is some of the worlds worst pizza.

But thats nowhere near the worst.

My half sister grew up there and had to do national service. IDF indoctrination is real, my half sister would be seen as someone with a compassionate approach to the world. Not until you ask her about Palestinians, and then IDF indoctrination comes out. 

She is not a Zionist tho, just someone "programmed" to their perspective. The zionists dont joun the army, because they are the ones EXEMPT from national service. Hassidics and other orthodox jews dont even pay tax!. And they are the ones calling for genocide.

We were taken in an IDF vehicle to a Palestinian "bakery" in the west bank, it was an open fire wit a hotplate and some tents around, and by custom they serve us first, before their own people who only had a short lunchbreak before they had to go to work. Kids collected stones. That lunch was deliberately planned unbeknownst to us before it happened. and that kind of antagonization has been still happening 30 years later.

Those kids collectind stones, mow many do you think might be still alive?.

The genocide is real.

Also dont drive in the bus lanes.

[Sakiale]

this site seems less full of absolute israel simps than ATS. i appreciate you sharing your experience, hopefully some of them see this and can start to empathize more with the plight of the palestinians. 

i am no terrorism supporter, but israeli propagandists told us to 'look into the history' so i did, and the vast majority of the time it only makes israel look more evil.

i think andrew tate articulated pretty much my exact viewpoint on this whole situation quite well:
[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pMsYSR7g78]

i dont have a tiktok, but a few months ago what appeared to be an authentic letter allegedly by osama bin laden stating his motivations for 9/11 went viral, and while he certainly has other grievances with the wicked western world, one of the main ones appeared to be... wait for it... the oppression of palestine.
it's a little hard to find nowadays so here's a link that works at the time of this post.
 
anyway, i see no easy solution and can only pray daily for peace and safety for all innocents.

[FlyersFan]

this site seems less full of absolute israel simps than ATS..... a few months ago what appeared to be an authentic letter allegedly by osama bin laden stating his motivations for 9/11 

Oh geeeze ... the Hamas propaganda found it's way here.  Oh well.   Oh ... and that Bin Ladin letter was obviously a HOAX.  Bin Ladin didn't give a rats backend about greenhouse gases and corporations etc etc.  Use some discernment.

[Sakiale]

Oh geeeze ... the Hamas propaganda found it's way here.  Oh well.   Oh ... and that Bin Ladin letter was obviously a HOAX.  Bin Ladin didn't give a rats backend about greenhouse gases and corporations etc etc.  Use some discernment.

lmao. how is the long, well-documented history of israeli massacre of palestinian civilians propaganda? dont just deflect by saying palestinians massacred people too, that doesn't answer my question.

also, prove the letter is a hoax. curious that you would single out the one line about 'industrial waste and gases', which bin laden may very well have given a rat's ass about, to call it a hoax and ignore the other dozen or two more pressing points he raised.

[Maxmars]

I can sense your disaffection with all things Israel.  But I must caution you... no, this isn't a political take.

Everything that any 'government' OR "leadership" pursues, or mandates isn't the "collective will of the people."  Ever. 

That is a meme and trope we have been "convinced" of, and readily accepted. 

Most people in Israel have absolutely no control over the actions of their "representatives" in the media - not any more than you or I do in our respective countries.  The same goes for that collection of people who wish for their 'idealized' Palestinian State.  And nearly all only have that 'media,' or specially 'directed' information, to go on in their daily lives.

I not so humbly offer a tip: Hate the actions, not the scenery. Most citizens are scenery.  In most matters international, "perspective" can't be tolerated as an excuse for violence, or threats of violence.  Violence only hurts people, not governments - the "problem" comes from governments and their "perspectives."

The how and why people acquiesce to the exploits of "governments acting in their name" is far too complicated to account for.  But the "cause" we are exposed to of "curtailing Israeli success" is palpable.  Someone somewhere keeps this cause alive.  I reject the idea that it is theological... that wouldn't make coherent sense.

I'm sure you aren't ignoring the choices BOTH states have "made" over the decades.  Where those choices led could not have been overlooked.

This is a plan.  The "information war" is being conducted according to a plan.  The media complicity is far too conveniently placed.  This isn't "everybody's business" as the globalists seem to prefer.  This is a regional conflict, as egregious and unappealing as MANY other ongoing, recent, and past conflicts which the media sees fit to ignore and fails to compare.  

Much of the outrage is manufactured.  Most of it is 'crafted' via a narrative full of one-sided considerations and perspectives then 'made active' by the insertion of faux-authoritative opinions.

And now, more on topic.  (Sorry about that digression, none of it was particularly "aimed" at either poster before me... it was an impulse.)

While I will never be invited to visit, I think it is a great service to warn me about the pizza.  I hadn't considered that, and I probably would "try" it, were I visiting.  Nothing worse to a New Yorker than unexpectedly "bad" pizza.

I have to say, I do understand your takeaway about "indoctrination."  I've seen that too (and not just relating to Israel.) When you join the military, it is appropriate, I think, to become more 'strident' and 'patriotic.'  But that's part of the gig.  Some returning from training seem "over the top." I noticed that even here (US) in our military, I found that it fades into reality fairly well... but not always... if your more "activist minded."  It can, and sometimes does, offend though.

Being older I can tell you that in my youth I lived in places where the bakery you describe could have been replicated.  I can only say that people were satisfied that "it serves."  Sometimes that we which consider 'regrettable' in other countries is purely a 'foreign perspective' ... among all the regrettable things in their lives...  that's not one they dwell on... it serves.

"Genocide" is a carefully selected label for what you're discussing.  I can't help but wonder how 'from the river to the sea' is not a genocidal idea.

For the record, I "support" neither side, who I think are only "playing" a game with the lives of people they don't care about or for.  Isn't it fun?

[Blaine91555]

  Statistics
    Population demography (2023)
Group    Population    Proportion of total
    Jews    7,181,000    73%
    Arabs  2,065,000    21%
    Other     549,000    6%
    Total    9,795,000    100%
Wiki Source

Note: It is often forgotten that 20%+ of Israeli citizens are Arabs and Muslims who live peacefully there.

Israel is a small country surrounded by people who openly support the destruction and death of all the citizens of Israel.

Syria is roughly 20 million people, 80% of which are likely enemies of Israel.

Iran is around 88 million people, 99% of which are Muslim, and Iran's government and military want Israel gone along with all its people. Iran's military is one of the most powerful on Earth and Iran's government funds terrorist groups like Hamas who openly call for genocide.

The map below shows the Islamic nations surrounding Israel to give an idea of what Israel is up against. That Israel even exists is a miracle when realizing how much of the world want the Jews gone. Sorry about the size of the map but the Islamic world is huge and Israel is tiny.

[Image: muslim_distribution.jpg]

I'm personally opposed to all war, period end of subject, but I do believe all people have a right to exist and to defend themselves.

I'm deeply disappointed to find out how many people in the US are siding with Hamas. I can't help but wonder if those saying "From the river to the sea" understand they are in fact calling for genocide. They are sharing a bed with Hamas and Iran by supporting them. People can't have it both ways.

I'm sure living there brings a different perspective to things. Living in fear at all times. Fear for one's self and the safety of family and loved ones. It must be a nightmare for the Jews living there, never knowing from day to day when a barrage of missiles might target where you live. Knowing that you are hated by billions of people, not because you're bad, but because their religion hates you just for existing. And now seeing so many siding with Hamas.

[DBCowboy]

Zi·on·ism
[ˈzīəˌnizəm]
noun

1. a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.
   

I guess I'm a Zionist.

*shrugs*

[pianopraze]

The whole Middle East has been killing and raping for literally millennia. 

we need to stay out of their family fights.

none of our bleeping business.

[BeTheGoddess]

Forgot I wrote this, but memory problems is my occupation.

Go to the western (wailing) wall during prayer time and you are  in  the mosh-pip of religiious insanity. Yelling at a wall anywhere else yiu would be considered insane. And thats a large voting block.

The place needs a good dose of seperation off church and state. 

There has been a lot posted in the last 24 hours, and I havent had my first glass of wine today, so I'll prolly get back to you all soon.

[BeTheGoddess]

this site seems less full of absolute israel simps than ATS. i appreciate you sharing your experience, hopefully some of them see this and can start to empathize more with the plight of the palestinians. 

i am no terrorism supporter, but israeli propagandists told us to 'look into the history' so i did, and the vast majority of the time it only makes israel look more evil.

i think andrew tate articulated pretty much my exact viewpoint on this whole situation quite well:
[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pMsYSR7g78]

i dont have a tiktok, but a few months ago what appeared to be an authentic letter allegedly by osama bin laden stating his motivations for 9/11 went viral, and while he certainly has other grievances with the wicked western world, one of the main ones appeared to be... wait for it... the oppression of palestine.
it's a little hard to find nowadays so here's a link that works at the time of this post.
 
anyway, i see no easy solution and can only pray daily for peace and safety for all innocents.

Not really familliar with Andrew Tate, but the Late Osama Bin Laden I do know of and he was close to US gov and the Saudi royals are alligned with the UK, so it is a huge stretch for it to be legit.

---

I can sense your disaffection with all things Israel.  But I must caution you... no, this isn't a political take.

Everything that any 'government' OR "leadership" pursues, or mandates isn't the "collective will of the people."  Ever. 

That is a meme and trope we have been "convinced" of, and readily accepted. 

Most people in Israel have absolutely no control over the actions of their "representatives" in the media - not any more than you or I do in our respective countries.  The same goes for that collection of people who wish for their 'idealized' Palestinian State.  And nearly all only have that 'media,' or specially 'directed' information, to go on in their daily lives.

I not so humbly offer a tip: Hate the actions, not the scenery. Most citizens are scenery.  In most matters international, "perspective" can't be tolerated as an excuse for violence, or threats of violence.  Violence only hurts people, not governments - the "problem" comes from governments and their "perspectives."

The how and why people acquiesce to the exploits of "governments acting in their name" is far too complicated to account for.  But the "cause" we are exposed to of "curtailing Israeli success" is palpable.  Someone somewhere keeps this cause alive.  I reject the idea that it is theological... that wouldn't make coherent sense.

I'm sure you aren't ignoring the choices BOTH states have "made" over the decades.  Where those choices led could not have been overlooked.

This is a plan.  The "information war" is being conducted according to a plan.  The media complicity is far too conveniently placed.  This isn't "everybody's business" as the globalists seem to prefer.  This is a regional conflict, as egregious and unappealing as MANY other ongoing, recent, and past conflicts which the media sees fit to ignore and fails to compare.  

Much of the outrage is manufactured.  Most of it is 'crafted' via a narrative full of one-sided considerations and perspectives then 'made active' by the insertion of faux-authoritative opinions.

And now, more on topic.  (Sorry about that digression, none of it was particularly "aimed" at either poster before me... it was an impulse.)

While I will never be invited to visit, I think it is a great service to warn me about the pizza.  I hadn't considered that, and I probably would "try" it, were I visiting.  Nothing worse to a New Yorker than unexpectedly "bad" pizza.

I have to say, I do understand your takeaway about "indoctrination."  I've seen that too (and not just relating to Israel.) When you join the military, it is appropriate, I think, to become more 'strident' and 'patriotic.'  But that's part of the gig.  Some returning from training seem "over the top." I noticed that even here (US) in our military, I found that it fades into reality fairly well... but not always... if your more "activist minded."  It can, and sometimes does, offend though.

Being older I can tell you that in my youth I lived in places where the bakery you describe could have been replicated.  I can only say that people were satisfied that "it serves."  Sometimes that we which consider 'regrettable' in other countries is purely a 'foreign perspective' ... among all the regrettable things in their lives...  that's not one they dwell on... it serves.

"Genocide" is a carefully selected label for what you're discussing.  I can't help but wonder how 'from the river to the sea' is not a genocidal idea.

For the record, I "support" neither side, who I think are only "playing" a game with the lives of people they don't care about or for.  Isn't it fun?

Its not tho, many nations are not formed by war, nobody died at Australia's constitutional conferences of the late 19th c. Nations can be formed without bloodfshed, like it has happened.

But Australia is certainly not without its own genocide, and its a fair comparison between out indigenous and the colonizer, to the plight of the Palestinians. Many regional communities are similar to the communities in the West Bank.

Oh, but theres more. Australian colonizers did commit genocide, it was like kill them all and we just pretend they never existed. The idea of Terra Nullius was what they were aiming for. Yeah, complete genocide. We even let tho British nuke first people, but thats a whole other story.

Israel needs to end its colonizer state and set up a secular one where all peoples of Israel can be treated equally. We eventually ended the colonies and became a nation in a peaceful way. Our indigenour are no longer considered "fauna".