Intense psychological turmoil - and encounters

[Ray1990]

Love thy enemy is certainly not human nature
Christs main teaching

In Gods name indeed, even though He taught love 
Anyway, that’s a theological argument you can’t explain to a non believer

There's seemingly quite a few references and quotes referring to the "love thy enemies" especially in Buddhism and Hinduism. Nothing directly saying to "love thy enemies as you love yourself" although Buddhism advises plenty with regards to oneness.

There's similar references in the old testament although that part of the bible isn't necessarily Christian, defunct since Jesus right? The same could be said about laws and rules that had exact or near equivalents within other cultures within Judaism history. Things like chopping off limbs and stoning adulterers... Not so nice stuff basically.

I suspect it's human nature to think, it would be dismissive of me to claim humans would never consider universal love without Christianity since we have countless reasons to come to similar conclusions. Animism itself would naturally encourage love and respect for everything encountered, we're also highly social animals ourselves. We'll build morality around our emotions because we are emotional creatures and we're not the only species to have social norms or even a sense of morality. In other words I'd have serious doubts that "love they enemies" was a groundbreaking and totally new concept to humans just like love itself isn't unique to humans themselves.

If I was to speak of my own experiences it certainly wasn't Christianity that taught me to love the ones I've hated. It was more of a spiritual conclusion that we're all one and the same behind those thoughts and memories we hold dear, including the negative ones. Influence wise Christianity probably did play a role within although the concept wouldn't have been lost on me in the absence of Christianity.

[Creaky]

There's seemingly quite a few references and quotes referring to the "love thy enemies" especially in Buddhism and Hinduism. Nothing directly saying to "love thy enemies as you love yourself" although Buddhism advises plenty with regards to oneness.

There's similar references in the old testament although that part of the bible isn't necessarily Christian, defunct since Jesus right? The same could be said about laws and rules that had exact or near equivalents within other cultures within Judaism history. Things like chopping off limbs and stoning adulterers... Not so nice stuff basically.

I suspect it's human nature to think, it would be dismissive of me to claim humans would never consider universal love without Christianity since we have countless reasons to come to similar conclusions. Animism itself would naturally encourage love and respect for everything encountered, we're also highly social animals ourselves. We'll build morality around our emotions because we are emotional creatures and we're not the only species to have social norms or even a sense of morality. In other words I'd have serious doubts that "love they enemies" was a groundbreaking and totally new concept to humans just like love itself isn't unique to humans themselves.

If I was to speak of my own experiences it certainly wasn't Christianity that taught me to love the ones I've hated. It was more of a spiritual conclusion that we're all one and the same behind those thoughts and memories we hold dear, including the negative ones. Influence wise Christianity probably did play a role within although the concept wouldn't have been lost on me in the absence of Christianity.

Show me where any religion or faith teaches enemy love as a cornerstone of it’s law
The actual teaching, be interested 
Looking at the world in Christs day, the turmoil, all the violence across the globe, India, China, the Middle East and Europe
I don’t see any “Love thy enemy” religious foundation being taught or practiced
maybe I am wrong, wouldn’t be the first time 


As for Jews cutting of limbs as punishment, not that I am aware of but your point is clear
Jews lived in a theocratic society, they had moral laws, religious laws as well as civil laws, yes stoning was a common punishment, justice 
christians no longer have control over civil laws or moral laws, a little different now 
If you were a Jew and didn’t like the laws, you could just leave that community

Germany pre WW2/the Nazis, was considered the most Christian of all Western cultures. Didn’t take long for that society to dismiss Christ.

Christians are taught love is a duty, if you do that from a non Christian motivation, well done you
Its not generally a default position for human nature 
For Christian’s, it is physical hard work and mentally demanding

[Ray1990]

Show me where any religion or faith teaches enemy love as a cornerstone of it’s law
The actual teaching, be interested 
Looking at the world in Christs day, the turmoil, all the violence across the globe, India, China, the Middle East and Europe
I don’t see any “Love thy enemy” religious foundation being taught or practiced
maybe I am wrong, wouldn’t be the first time 


As for Jews cutting of limbs as punishment, not that I am aware of but your point is clear
Jews lived in a theocratic society, they had moral laws, religious laws as well as civil laws, yes stoning was a common punishment, justice 
christians no longer have control over civil laws or moral laws, a little different now 
If you were a Jew and didn’t like the laws, you could just leave that community

Germany pre WW2/the Nazis, was considered the most Christian of all Western cultures. Didn’t take long for that society to dismiss Christ.

Christians are taught love is a duty, if you do that from a non Christian motivation, well done you
Its not generally a default position for human nature 
For Christian’s, it is physical hard work and mentally demanding

‘Hatred does not cease by hatred; hatred ceases only by love, this is the eternal law.’ - Guatama Buddha

Loving thy enemy cannot be accomplished without creating an enemy in the first place. You can't perceive an enemy without fear and hatred.

You or I won't find direct comparisons but it was never just Christians who practiced showing respect and care even for captives during war for instance.

The corpus hermeticum says quite a bit about the nature of good and evil and the conclusions could point in a similar direction too.

Looking at the world in Christs day, the turmoil, all the violence across the globe, India, China, the Middle East and Europe
I don’t see any “Love thy enemy” religious foundation being taught or practiced

The violence never stopped even under Christianity, to state any other culture was incapable of expressing love for anyone and all is a folly arguement. It's human nature to question and the question of love is as ancient as man itself according to some faith systems. If Jesus got about he would see a wealth of comparisons and volumes of work that would've probably been a lot less precise than a parable although a lot more detailed when it comes to the human condition.

All that said Buddha said this:
"Even if low-down bandits were to sever you limb from limb with a two-handled saw, anyone who had a malevolent thought on that account would not be following my instructions. If that happens, you should train like this: ‘Our minds will remain unaffected. We will blurt out no bad words. We will remain full of compassion, with a heart of love and no secret hate. We will meditate spreading a heart of love to that person. And with them as a basis, we will meditate spreading a heart full of love to everyone in the world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will.’ That’s how you should train."

If that's not "love thy enemy" said with other words I'm not sure I'd ever be able to convince you love might just be human nature.

"Do not return evil to your adversary; requite with kindness the one who does evil to you, maintain justice for your enemy, be friendly to your enemy. Give food to eat, beer to drink, grant what is requested, provide for and treat with honor. At this one's god takes pleasure." - some Akkadian father - 2200BC

Yuddha Kanda 115
A superior being does not render evil for evil; this is a maxim one should observe; the ornament of virtuous persons is their conduct. One should never harm the wicked or the good or even criminals meriting death. A noble soul will ever exercise compassion even towards those who enjoy injuring others or those of cruel deeds when they are actually committing them--for who is without fault? - Ramayana, Hinduism

There's plenty of quotes from prophets and wise men from other cultures/faiths espousing very similar ideology, do they make a commandment? No but not all faith systems were/are top heavy. You'll also find a lot of contradictory statements and cultural norms and that's true for Christianity also.

Germany pre WW2/the Nazis, was considered the most Christian of all Western cultures. Didn’t take long for that society to dismiss Christ.

In the same light of Russian Eastern Orthodoxy? They never had Christ when their intentions is to manipulate.

Christians are taught love is a duty, if you do that from a non Christian motivation, well done you
Its not generally a default position for human nature
For Christian’s, it is physical hard work and mentally demanding

It's physically and mentally demanding for anyone. You're actually going against human nature with an almost divine ability of mind. It's a long held position of mine that Pacifism is the noblest of callings, it's only for the bravest and most courageous. I don't need doctrines to reach that conclusion. I wouldn't go as far as stating there's a universal religion or system although any that have come to the conclusion of a divine creator are often set onto the path of separating the father from his creation since a true creature is volumeless in comparison. Akin to dwelling in darkness as light dwells within you.

[Creaky]

The violence never stopped even under Christianity,

to state any other culture was incapable of expressing love 

If that's not "love thy enemy" said with other words I'm not sure I'd ever be able to convince you love might just be human

fighting the shadows friend
My statements seem to be ignored as you are attributing false dichotomies

I never said love didn’t exist outside Christ, I said it was a foundational rule of the Christian faith
Never said Christians were in fact Christian or good at their faith
Said Jesus taught love over law, not something we can see in other faiths 

Yours is like a feminine argument, based on feeling and nothing I have said. You are creating a narrative to justify your verbose reply

And your pacifism, well done you, living peacefully in a western society, a society based on a Christian worldview, well probably up till the early 2000s.
Be grateful to past sacrifice so you can live in peace, not arrogant you do live in peace

Personally prefer the Russian Orthodox Church over the (US) western Evangelical (tv) faith where the love of money is god and self is worshipped 

it would be beneficial if you spent minutes reading my replies and answering them as opposed to manufacturing an argument I havnt constructed

[Sirius]

Love the discussion on love.

On topic, the experience overall seems to be nuanced and I don't think without actually talking to "initiates" you will never know how deep the experience went.

I have had some cool experience on sleep depravation.  Nothing other than a strong urge to rest from physical exhaustion and I have pushed myself to puking, it's just nasty. Pain, I just want it to stop.

Has anyone been in the military by any chance, any weird stuff happen during intense training where your pushed mentally and physically?   During battle I think weird shit happens all the time.

[Ray1990]

Ok...?

I never said love didn’t exist outside Christ, I said it was a foundational rule of the Christian faith
Never said Christians were in fact Christian or good at their faith
Said Jesus taught love over law, not something we can see in other faiths

I said it's a foundational part of other religions and faith systems too whilst briefly touching how the human condition navigates from A to B. So it's most definitely present elsewhere than Christianity.

Of course love is above the law when laws are man made, so is hate in the moment a 2nd degree murder is committed too.

And your pacifism, well done you, living peacefully in a western society, a society based on a Christian worldview, well probably up till the early 2000s.
Be grateful to past sacrifice so you can live in peace, not arrogant you do live in peace

The peace was earned yet social strife is constant even with robust social services, education and law enforcement. Last I heard they're still making laws and common law is the historic norm within the Western world so your "2000's" comment seems a bit weird to me, can you explain that further?

Without further explanation I'm left just reading into your comments, I'm hardly arrogant about the peace I have either on a national or international scale since I do have a slight clue of what actually earned it and the sacrifices made. I'm hardly a pacifist either.

Personally prefer the Russian Orthodox Church over the (US) western Evangelical (tv) faith where the love of money is god and self is worshipped

Big picture guy longing for a 'better' world?

I'm a firm believer in separation of state from religion. I can explain further if needs be although I'm sure you aspire for each to their own as well...

it would be beneficial if you spent minutes reading my replies and answering them as opposed to manufacturing an argument I havnt constructed

I did?

I'm sorry you feel attacked, I thought we were having a bit of a debate about the fundamental concept of love regarding faith systems whilst loosely talking about other related things too. Somewhat off topic from the thread although interrelated.

I'm saying that "love thy enemy" would be implied regarding quite a few of them.

Yours is like a feminine argument, based on feeling and nothing I have said. You are creating a narrative to justify your verbose reply

That sounds like projection, I don't have many personal feelings towards the topic or the somewhat off topic conversation we're having. I got shirts. I occasionally knot them up at the front though!

What narrative am I supposed to be fabricating? Love is an emotion is it not? Does love not qualify as feels?