Has Ukraine collapsed

[UltraBudgie]

Kind of wondering if Ukraine soldiers have had enough, not just the fighting but the corruption being reported back in Kiev.
Have the boots on ground reached their limit, realised they are not just fighting Russia but also have to fight their own corrupt leaders in the years ahead

What corruption? Have fun disentangling the propaganda and finding reality. As usual, it's not so much about the contents of the bullshit itself, as much as the way it flows and stacks up that shows the topology of the underlying terrain.

[andy06shake]

For one corrupt government vs another?

They are fighting for the country and their very survival as a nation.

It's about existance, not political aisles right now.  

They are all corrupt to one degree or another.

[andy06shake]

Then the European Union should send in troops.  I really think Putin might not stop at the Ukraine.   But Europe seemed more concerned with cheap energy.  Europe help create the Putin monster and now doesn’t want to do what it will take to clean up the mess.

That would equate to a third world war WallFlowerActive.

As to Europe helping to create the Putin monster.

I tend to agree on certain aspects of that statement.

But it's like arguing over who created Hitler.

Kind of besides the point until the dictator scum is dead or held to account for his actions. 

We should learn from history, not repeat it.

[WallFlowerActive]

They are fighting for the country and their very survival as a nation.

It's about existance, not political aisles right now.  

They are all corrupt to one degree or another.

Because Europe created the Putin monster by buying cheap energy from Russia.  And US and European arms dealers are more than happy to sell weapons for a profit as the Ukraine burns through the last of its fighting men.  If Putin is such a threat, then the rest of Europe needs to invest blood in protecting the Ukraine.  Not use the Ukraine as a weapons development lab and weapons market.

[WallFlowerActive]

That would equate to a third world war WallFlowerActive.

Great.  Europe help make Putin Rich.  Keeps making arms dealers rich.  And Putin called Europes bluff.

What’s the excuse going to be when Putin goes into Poland?  I bet there is already a growing number of Russian speaking people needing “liberated” by Putin.

[andy06shake]

Because Europe created the Putin monster by buying cheap energy from Russia.  And US and European arms dealers are more than happy to sell weapons for a profit as the Ukraine burns through the last of its fighting men.  If Putin is such a threat, then the rest of Europe needs to invest blood in protecting the Ukraine.  Not use the Ukraine as a weapons development lab and weapons market.

There is no "If" about it, Putin is a threat, hence our continued support of Ukraine. 

And if Europe were ever to fall to the Russian horde, the pond would not protect you. 

NATO boots on the ground would equate to the beginning of a third world war.

Their combined might would smash whatever is left of the antiquated Russian forces.

Drive them back across their own borders, decimate what's left of their air force in no time flat.
 
The only Russian response would be to let the nukes fly.

And then what....

[Kurokage]

I don't think that Russia is doing as well as you think....

https://en.defence-ua.com/analysis/russi...13518.html

Russia’s Battlefield Losses: IISS Report Unveils Staggering Figures.
IISS is one of the most authoritative institutions in its field, and its estimates of russian manpower losses have closely aligned with the data from the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine....

Regarding armored vehicle losses, analysts estimate that Ukraine's Defense Forces have disabled approximately 1,400 main battle tanks and over 3,700 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers of the russian army. In total, from February 24, 2022, to the end of December 2024, russia’s armored vehicle losses amounted to around 14,000 units.
Additionally, tank losses by type over the entire period have been calculated. According to estimates, russia has lost approximately 2,130 T-72 tanks, 1,475 T-80s, 335 T-62s, 257 T-90s, 146 T-64s, and 10 T-55s. Defense Express notes that this generally reflects the distribution of specific tank types within the enemy’s forces....

[andy06shake]

What’s the excuse going to be when Putin goes into Poland?

Don't know about excuses, but Poland's NATO membership would trigger the collective defense obligations under Article 5.

[WallFlowerActive]

And if Europe were ever to fall to the Russian horde, the pond would not protect you. 

The real threat is China with them getting cheap fuel from Russia.  Where the whole world is addicted to cheap Chinese crap.

NATO boots on the ground would equate to the beginning of a third world war.

What you think is going to happen when Putin goes into the next country?

Sad that Europe help make this mess and willing to make a profit off arms deals.  And only interested in policy that makes corruption easy while the Ukraine burns through the last of its fighting men.

You can make all the grand claims all you want.  But if there is nobody left in Ukraine that can realistically fight because they all got used as canon fodder, Russia takes over the Ukraine anyway.  With China having increased access to energy through Russian and its control of the Ukrainian.

[WallFlowerActive]

I don't think that Russia is doing as well as you think....

Who is claiming Russia is doing great.  The Ukraine is literally fighting to the last man.  When the Ukraine has burnt through those that can realistically fight, what then.