Delta plane flips over while landing in Toronto

[EXETER]

It was a hard landing. A 3 degree glideslope, which is normal, has a descent rate between -300 and -500 fpm. The last data point from this flight showed a -1,024 fpm descent rate with several points around that same vertical speed. They would have been ok with just the hard landing, maybe some airframe damage and an inspection, but right before they touched down the right wing dropped and hit the runway.

Yes, it's obvious from the videos that are now showing up online that the right wing contacted the ground and broke off basically at the moment of touchdown, creating a small fireball from the fuel in the wing tanks.  Since the aircraft was still traveling forward at landing speed, the left wing was still generating lift and the right wing was gone, the asymmetrical lift caused the fuselage to roll to the right all the way onto its back.  Fortunately, the forward speed of the aircraft carried the fuselage away from the fireball, otherwise it could have been much worse. As you point out, if the aircraft was landing on runway 23 but the wind was coming from 270 degrees, there would have been a large crosswind component blowing the aircraft to the left that the pilot would have been compensating for--probably by slipping to a landing with the right wing low and cross controlling with opposite rudder.  If the pilot is too slow in leveling the wings and neutralizing the rudder at the moment of touchdown, this kind of thing can happen.  My money is on that explanation, at the moment.

[Zaphod58]

Yes, it's obvious from the videos that are now showing up online that the right wing contacted the ground and broke off basically at the moment of touchdown, creating a small fireball from the fuel in the wing tanks.  Since the aircraft was still traveling forward at landing speed, the left wing was still generating lift and the right wing was gone, the asymmetrical lift caused the fuselage to roll to the right all the way onto its back.  Fortunately, the forward speed of the aircraft carried the fuselage away from the fireball, otherwise it could have been much worse. As you point out, if the aircraft was landing on runway 23 but the wind was coming from 270 degrees, there would have been a large crosswind component blowing the aircraft to the left that the pilot would have been compensating for--probably by slipping to a landing with the right wing low and cross controlling with opposite rudder.  If the pilot is too slow in leveling the wings and neutralizing the rudder at the moment of touchdown, this kind of thing can happen.  My money is on that explanation, at the moment.

If I had to guess right now, I’d say the snow caused them to misjudge their height above the runway, and they tried to force it down, and didn’t correct in time. The CRJ had to drop the wing for crosswinds, which can lead to trouble.

The airframe construction is a big part of what saved lives. The fuselage sits on the wings instead of them running through the fuselage.

[Zaphod58]

This is at least the fourth time a CRJ/Challenger has had MLG failure on landing in difficult conditions, with two of them ending up flipping. A Challenger (the CRJ and Challenger use the same fuselage with the CRJ stretching it) landed in Aspen Colorado in 2014, suffered damage to both MLG, ending up on its back. A CRJ for Flair in 2007 landed in Toronto under crosswind conditions and suffered a failure of both MLG sliding down the runway, but remained upright. There have been several airworthiness directives for MLG issues on the airframe type. There was one in 2018 that just came due about corrosion and damage to the MLG through routine use, caused by the sleeve rubbing as the gear goes up and down through normal movement.

This aircraft suffered damage to the right main, with it separating from the airframe. 

[putnam6]

This is at least the fourth time a CRJ/Challenger has had MLG failure on landing in difficult conditions, with two of them ending up flipping. A Challenger (the CRJ and Challenger use the same fuselage with the CRJ stretching it) landed in Aspen Colorado in 2014, suffered damage to both MLG, ending up on its back. A CRJ for Flair in 2007 landed in Toronto under crosswind conditions and suffered a failure of both MLG sliding down the runway, but remained upright. There have been several airworthiness directives for MLG issues on the airframe type. There was one in 2018 that just came due about corrosion and damage to the MLG through routine use, caused by the sleeve rubbing as the gear goes up and down through normal movement.

This aircraft suffered damage to the right main, with it separating from the airframe. 

[Image: https://denyignorance.com/uploader/image...AAfRvM.jpg]

So the aircraft has its reliability issues, as a sometimes flyer I have to ask is there anywhere one can look up such incidences by aircraft model.
I searched the NTSB but got sidetracked

I did find that statistically there are NOT more accidents because of Trump or DEI, this is a much more complex issue overall even if it has marginal  bearing in an individual case

[Zaphod58]

So the aircraft has its reliability issues, as a sometimes flyer I have to ask is there anywhere one can look up such incidences by aircraft model.
I searched the NTSB but got sidetracked

I did find that statistically there are NOT more accidents because of Trump or DEI, this is a much more complex issue overall even if it has marginal  bearing in an individual case

[Image: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GkM4Fx4WcAAw...me=900x900]

Hardly. There are almost 2000 CRJs alone, and over 1,000 CL-604s built. They’re very reliable aircraft in both types. They have a few issues but every plane does.

[putnam6]

Hardly. There are almost 2000 CRJs alone, and over 1,000 CL-604s built. They’re very reliable aircraft in both types. They have a few issues but every plane does.

 I realize flying is incredibly safe overall 

Aren't other planes landing in the same difficult conditions every winter without flipping over from landing gear failure on hard landings?

[quintessentone]

 I realize flying is incredibly safe overall 

Aren't other planes landing in the same difficult conditions every winter without flipping over from landing gear failure on hard landings?

What I am hearing from media sources is that it was pilot error. It was proposed that the pilots should have realized they would not land successfully and should have given it another fly around and another try.

[putnam6]

What I am hearing from media sources is that it was pilot error. It was proposed that the pilots should have realized they would not land successfully and should have given it another fly around and another try.

We don't give pilots enough credit, I'd be going around endlessly LOL.

The only thing I've done close to that is driving a rickety mobile home up and down the mountains and valleys of Appalachia in all kinds of weather. 

After a white knuckle ride up one peak I parked and waited for two hours as the winds rocked the whole truck.

[Zaphod58]

 I realize flying is incredibly safe overall 

Aren't other planes landing in the same difficult conditions every winter without flipping over from landing gear failure on hard landings?

There are a lot of factors that need to be looked at before we can say what the cause is. Was there corrosion in the strut? Was there too much side slip? Yes other planes are landing safely in those conditions, but that doesn't mean it's perfectly safe.

[Zaphod58]

What I am hearing from media sources is that it was pilot error. It was proposed that the pilots should have realized they would not land successfully and should have given it another fly around and another try.

The media is the worst possible source for information on aircraft accidents. The report will show what happened.