Columbia University has fallen

[FlyersFan]

The protestors are against the war and against the killings of civilians. Israel is the invading force and nobody can argue the opposite.

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You cannot blame the killing of tens of thousands of civilians on war. It's the invading force that's killing them.

The protestors are chanting 'from the river to the sea'.  That's a call TO war.  It's a call to destroy Israel and genocide the Jews.   That's not peaceful.  That's not a call to end war but instead is a call TO war.   And no, Israel isn't an 'invading force'.  Israel was invaded and attacked on Oct 7.  They are now protecting themselves.   There are approximately 16,000 dead civilians in Gaza because of the war.   That's an extremely low number for urban warfare.  And ALL the dead are the fault of Hamas and the 'palestinians' who support them.  They caused the war.  They attacked Israel forcing Israel to engage in self defense.  They hold the hostages and refuse to give them up and refuse to give up their arms, and refuse to stop calling for the destruction of Israel.  ALL the dead in Gaza are the fault of Hamas and the 'palestinians'.  ALL OF THEM.  

UN Halves Estimate of Women and Children Killed in Gaza.

The UN  also highlighted that the plurality of identified fatalities were men (40%), while children were (32%) and women (20%).


UN Halves Estimate of Women and Children Killed in Gaza

The United Nations seemingly halved the estimated number of women and children killed in Gaza, according to UN data published on May 6 and 8.  The UN published the number of fatalities reported by the Hamas-run Gaza Ministry of Health or the Government Media Office in Gaza and Israeli authorities.   The UN provided a disclaimer below the data: "The UN has so far not been able to produce independent, comprehensive, and verified casualty figures."

On May 6, the UN published data showing that 34,735 people had reportedly been killed in Gaza, including over 9,500 women and over 14,500 children.    On May 8, the UN published data showing 34,844 people had reportedly been killed, including 4,959 women and 7,797 children.

The new figures showed the number of identified deaths as of April 30, which total 24,686 people; the new data also specified that 10,006 men had been killed and 1,924 elderly.  

NOW ... add to that new 24,686 figure the fact that Israel says it estimates 12,000 dead Hamas fighters.   If they are close to being correct, that leaves 12,686 civilian casualties.  Men, women and children.  VERY different from the figure of 34,000 dead women and children that Hamas is trying to bamboozle people with.   And the fact still remains that NONE of them would be dead if Hamas and the 'palestinians' hadn't attacked Israel and if Hamas would lay down their arms and give up the hostages.  (Which I doubt any are still alive given the abuse that the freed ones were going through)

IDF Says 12000 Hamas Fighters Killed in Gaza War

The Israel Defense Forces said Monday that troops have killed some 12,000 of Hamas’s estimated 30,000 gunmen in the Gaza Strip since war erupted on October 7, after a Qatar-based official for the terror group claimed it had lost half that number — some 6,000 fighters — during the four-month-old conflict.

Hamas is also believed to have thousands of operatives who are seriously wounded and unable to fight.

[

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When you choose the behavior, you choose the consequences.
Hamas and the 'Palestinians' choose their behavior on October 7.
They chose to mass murder 1200 innocent people.
They chose to mass rape men and women.
They chose to burn families alive.
They chose to kidnap 240 people, torturing and raping and starving them.

The consequence of that behavior is that Israel will defend itself and 
go into Gaza to destroy Hamas and those that support it.   Therefore,
Hamas and the 'palestinians' chose the consequences ... and anything 
happening in Gaza is their own damn fault.

[Blaine91555]

The more I read and watch about what's happening in universities like Columbia, the more I think we should test the water for nerve agents that target the prefrontal cortex. How did we produce so many children who are incapable of basic critical thinking skills. Sigh.

[putnam6]

The more I read and watch about what's happening in universities like Columbia, the more I think we should test the water for nerve agents that target the prefrontal cortex. How did we produce so many children who are incapable of basic critical thinking skills. Sigh.

I read elsewhere, nothing academic just another forum's thoughts, that the angst of the American youngest generation goes through cycles of change each decade, but can not ever outgrow that awkwardness of youth nor tame the rebellion in them.

Some handle it better than others, and then other factors and variables come into play. In times of economic struggle or societal hardship, the immature and those without coping skills get washed up in thier form of rebellion is. 

The late 70s had the Punk Rock into the Goth/EMO phase for example. There are other groupings but it's always that lowest percentage that is the squeaky wheel. 


Our saving grace this generation has no stamina, LOL take out thier cell phones and they wouldn't know what to do

Not to mention most protests had significant counter-protesters in the same age group demographically.

Just for fun here is Claude AI's thoughts on the effectiveness of protesting... now honestly look at where these protests stand now, I'll highlight where they may have failed and where they may have succeeded.

So far all positives and negatives are embedded in these protests to certain degrees and the degree varies from location to location. 

I like what the University of Minnesota reporter said about National implications, I paraphrase but she said the protests had no national goals it was solely to make the student body more aware. So if that was the goal it succeeded


https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2...s-00155672

Alex Steil (University of Minnesota): Yes, there has been a stark rise in antisemitism on campus. Of 122 bias reports this year at the university, 42 are reported against Israel or tagged as antisemitism. Sixteen were reported as against Palestine or as Islamophobia.

 Jewish student organization, “Safety, in this moment, is relative.” They mention how they don’t feel safe walking around campus, seeing mentions of armed revolution or the globalization of the Intifada. I have not heard of the same type of incidents with Palestinian/Arab students.

 although protestors are still saying on social media their numbers are in the hundreds. As a proportion of our overall campus, it is a fraction of our roughly 55,000 students.

the visits from our city council members and other legislators seemed to make little impact. In at least our instance, it seems that our protests are more student-led, student-oriented and focused on our university rather than the national scale. Our members of Congress weigh in, and that’s fine. But it seems like the students who are protesting are focusing on change it feels like they can make — calling on their university, potentially folks they have talked to before in different subject areas — rather than continue to petition at the national level.

https://claude.ai/

 Here are some key considerations:
Potential Positive Impacts:

• Raising awareness about important issues on campus and in society TRUE
  
• Giving a voice to marginalized groups and highlighting their concerns TRUE
  
• Pressuring administrators to enact policy changes or make concessions TRUE
  
• Building solidarity and activism among students TRUE
  
• Serving as a catalyst for broader social movements TRUE
  

Potential Limitations:

• Protests alone may not achieve all demanded changes if leaders refuse to capitulate TRUE
  
• Disruptive tactics can alienate potential supporters TRUE
  
• Media framing may minimize or distort the protest messages TRUE
  
• Student turnover makes it hard to sustain prolonged movement momentum TRUE
  
• Lack of clear goals and unified leadership can undermine impact TRUE
  

There are many historical examples where student protests played a major role in changing campus policies and even larger political/social change (e.g. Free Speech Movement, anti-Vietnam protests). But there are also cases where protests had minimal effect or backfired to some degree.
Ultimately, the success of any given campus protest depends on thoughtful strategies tailored to the situation and deft navigation of complex power dynamics. Reasonable people may disagree on tactics and what constitutes "real" change.

But civic activism is essential for a healthy democracy. TRUE

[putnam6]

Remember when the PLO was a terrorist organization...if we see an upsurge in the protests we will know where the clrion call for action came from Dearborn Michigan....

[putnam6]

Again another visual aid graph undeniably shows that out of the hundreds of campus protests, only a few dozen had encampments. Why because encampments take money, ie somebody is financing them. 

 
74,170 views May 24, 2024
Law enforcement officers in riot gear took quick action to dismantle another encampment built by pro-Palestinian demonstrators on the campus of UCLA on Thursday. Sky5 aerial footage showed the encampment on Kerckhoff Patio, involving wood barricades and umbrellas, had blocked access to a campus building.

This prompted the Los Angeles Police Department to issue a tactical alert, and the university switched some classes from in-person to remote learning.

Officials declared the encampment an "unlawful assembly."

KTLA's Chris Wolfe reports on May 23, 2024.

[Video: https://youtu.be/W6io3vxsJtE?si=0LImO6zYMIkADMCt]

[putnam6]

An encouraging development from across the pond

[Notran]

I have a hard time sympathizing with anyone who is against Israel.

That could be a lot of people at the moment.
Most of the world disagrees with what Israel is doing.

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The protestors are chanting 'from the river to the sea'.  That's a call TO war.  It's a call to destroy Israel and genocide the Jews.   That's not peaceful.  That's not a call to end war but instead is a call TO war.   And no, Israel isn't an 'invading force'.  Israel was invaded and attacked on Oct 7.  They are now protecting themselves.   There are approximately 16,000 dead civilians in Gaza because of the war.   That's an extremely low number for urban warfare.  And ALL the dead are the fault of Hamas and the 'palestinians' who support them.  They caused the war.  They attacked Israel forcing Israel to engage in self defense.  They hold the hostages and refuse to give them up and refuse to give up their arms, and refuse to stop calling for the destruction of Israel.  ALL the dead in Gaza are the fault of Hamas and the 'palestinians'.  ALL OF THEM.  

UN Halves Estimate of Women and Children Killed in Gaza.

The UN  also highlighted that the plurality of identified fatalities were men (40%), while children were (32%) and women (20%).


UN Halves Estimate of Women and Children Killed in Gaza


NOW ... add to that new 24,686 figure the fact that Israel says it estimates 12,000 dead Hamas fighters.   If they are close to being correct, that leaves 12,686 civilian casualties.  Men, women and children.  VERY different from the figure of 34,000 dead women and children that Hamas is trying to bamboozle people with.   And the fact still remains that NONE of them would be dead if Hamas and the 'palestinians' hadn't attacked Israel and if Hamas would lay down their arms and give up the hostages.  (Which I doubt any are still alive given the abuse that the freed ones were going through)

IDF Says 12000 Hamas Fighters Killed in Gaza War

[

---

When you choose the behavior, you choose the consequences.
Hamas and the 'Palestinians' choose their behavior on October 7.
They chose to mass murder 1200 innocent people.
They chose to mass rape men and women.
They chose to burn families alive.
They chose to kidnap 240 people, torturing and raping and starving them.

The consequence of that behavior is that Israel will defend itself and 
go into Gaza to destroy Hamas and those that support it.   Therefore,
Hamas and the 'palestinians' chose the consequences ... and anything 
happening in Gaza is their own damn fault.

But protestors don't see things the way you do.
Israel is the country occupying another country.
Are they wrong?

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The more I read and watch about what's happening in universities like Columbia, the more I think we should test the water for nerve agents that target the prefrontal cortex. How did we produce so many children who are incapable of basic critical thinking skills. Sigh.

Unlikely it will happen.
Why do you say children are incapable of basic thinking skills?

I don't know many people who think Israel is right in what they're doing. They're occupying a land for many decades and that's why students protest.

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Deep State? LOL really...now thats evidence I'd like to hear, and see, BUT I know you don't do links.

Please clarify overcomplicate masters??? LOL Im not the one plugging the "Deep State" into the situation. 

10/7 is the only reason Israel is in Gaza...If they want IDF to leave give up the hostages and Hamas, otherwise Israel has a right to defend itself too. 

Hamas miscalculated the response or worse they simply didn't care. Now they want to remain in power and steal all the funds that will come in to rebuild Gaza. The IDF isn't going to let that happen REALITY

The same is happening with the organizers behind the protests they miscalculated, they assume they could whip up the fervor of past protests, but they just could keep their bigotry and racism in check, consequently well-read the Harvard Polls. the protests are small and weakening, like the few days of hunger strikes at one location, think it was Harvard or MIT, but it was so non-descript I can't remember. 

What the protests did was take eyes off Israel and put them on the protests themselves. In this day and age if you don't get immediate results, you lose this generation, they become disillusioned and want to do something else. 

It isn't stopping Rafah either. 


[Image: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/176...normal.png]
Lee Harris

@addicted2newz

https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1794068764415181240

Excellent article from Politico touches on a number of topics mentioned in this thread. If anything it shows how disjointed the protest have become. One student news reporter said there were disagreements between the protesters on what to do and how to protest. 

It actually makes me even less concerned about the protests. 


https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2...s-00155672
 What’s Really Happening on College Campuses, According to Student JournalistsPOLITICO Magazine asked leaders of campus news organizations to set the record straight about campus unrest, antisemitism and what the media is getting wrong


Counterprotesters throw away camp equipment while pro-Palestinian protesters gather in an encampment at Arizona State University in Tempe, on April 26. | Paul Pascual/The State Press
[Image: https://www.politico.com/dims4/default/7...ndary5.jpg]

I meant matters.
Israel have been occupying Gaza for decades.

The protests are genuine and they don't only happen in the US. They happen everywhere in the world.

Most people are against what Israel is doing in Gaza, not just students. Israel has miscalculated the reaction by most other countries. They thought they will have support but everyone is condemning them at the moment.

[Maxmars]

I have to ask... Is it not true that protestors are protesting to 'remove' Jews from their homes, as if they didn't belong there?

In what universe is Israel "occupying" Palestine?  Even the UN doesn't dare say that, and the UN is the very definition of fantasy-land, and very inclined against Israel at the moment.

The biggest threat to people understanding this situation is the persistent "alternate narrative" of how Israel doesn't get to exist... and how therefor Jews must be purged.  I can't see how to make that seem "just" and "fair" considering without lying about reality.

Forgive me for saying it bluntly... The protesters have to stop depositing their passion in activists' hands.  Someone is orchestrating them... so who is the "director?"  I note that whoever it may be... they are never actually "in attendance" at the protest... that speaks volumes to me.

[Notran]

I have to ask... Is it not true that protestors are protesting to 'remove' Jews from their homes, as if they didn't belong there?

In what universe is Israel "occupying" Palestine?  Even the UN doesn't dare say that, and the UN is the very definition of fantasy-land, and very inclined against Israel at the moment.

The biggest threat to people understanding this situation is the persistent "alternate narrative" of how Israel doesn't get to exist... and how therefor Jews must be purged.  I can't see how to make that seem "just" and "fair" considering without lying about reality.

Forgive me for saying it bluntly... The protesters have to stop depositing their passion in activists' hands.  Someone is orchestrating them... so who is the "director?"  I note that whoever it may be... they are never actually "in attendance" at the protest... that speaks volumes to me.

It is what it is.
You can't call it peaceful coexistence.
One country occupying the other one for many decades.
Many countries are now recognising Palestine as a state.
The students are reacting to all these.

[Maxmars]

It is what it is.
You can't call it peaceful coexistence.
One country occupying the other one for many decades.
Many countries are now recognising Palestine as a state.
The students are reacting to all these.

I can accept that.  There has been a tug of war going on there for many years.  Give, take, cede, surrender... over and over...
plus a lot of old hatred between leaderships...

I just don't think making a case to chant for death is in any way an honorable solution.

Perhaps I'm just too old myself.