Are we the true leaders?

[andy06shake]

generally when one begins a statement with
"it would be nice to have..."
what follows is an idealistic aspiration

but i suppose we could do
"it would be nice to have...
grudging acceptance of the status quo
and acceptance of anything better
as unrealistic and impossible"

if you want

Well, if that's the case.

Then there goes progress.

And down the new road lies stagnation.

History shows humanity has advanced.

Progress is uneven, but it's an ongoing event.

What we want is a better world to exist.

But not a perfect one.

We need obstacles to overcome.

That's just part of the human condition.

And not likely to change anytime soon.

[FlyersFan]

On paper, Communisum works perfectly.
But people are not paper.
They are corruptible for a start.
Which is why it can never realistically work in practice.

Agreed.   On paper Communism is the perfect way to go.
One World Government being Communistic.
But in reality, people suck and are easily corrupted, and easily slip into 'lazy' mode.
Communism fails every time.  So does Socialism.
The only thing that works is a free market under a democratic system of governing.
It's imperfect for sure.   But that's the best humans have.

[andy06shake]

Agreed.   On paper Communism is the perfect way to go.
One World Government being Communistic.
But in reality, people suck and are easily corrupted, and easily slip into 'lazy' mode.
Communism fails every time.  So does Socialism.
The only thing that works is a free market under a democratic system of governing.
It's imperfect for sure.   But that's the best humans have.

I would be inclined to pick a free market economy every time.

Socialism can be democratic, and work as part of a mixed economy, which is something to consider. 

None of them are perfect.

And im inclined to pick democracy also.

Even if it is a prison where we cannot see the bars.

[ReturnofBroccoli]

I would be inclined to pick a free market economy every time.

Socialism can be democratic, and work as part of a mixed economy, which is something to consider. 

None of them are perfect.

And im inclined to pick democracy also.

Even if it is a prison where we cannot see the bars.

Please define the bars, you must sense them and know what they are to feel that it is an unseen prison. I just want to sense what you feel is trapping you because I dont feel it. If not everyone feels it, how do you know the prison isn't you?

[andy06shake]

Please define the bars, you must sense them and know what they are to feel that it is an unseen prison. I just want to sense what you feel is trapping you because I dont feel it. If not everyone feels it, how do you know the prison isn't you?

It's a metaphor really. 

Democracy gives the illusion of freedom.

But it also limits real choice and power.

You may vote, but options are often controlled by TPTB, media, and corporate interests.

People believe they are free, yet economic pressures, social norms, and manipulated narratives suggest otherwise.

Freedom is an illusion, humans require rules to interact with one another on any sort of scale.

Democracy equates to a sort of multiple-choice question, where you get to choose A/B/C.

[ReturnofBroccoli]

It's a metaphor really. 

Democracy gives the illusion of freedom.

But it also limits real choice and power.

You may vote, but options are often controlled by TPTB, media, and corporate interests.

People believe they are free, yet economic pressures, social norms, and manipulated narratives suggest otherwise.

Freedom is an illusion, humans require rules to interact with one another on any sort of scale.

Democracy equates to a sort of multiple-choice question, where you get to choose A/B/C.

I dont require rules and i may act freely. The consequences for bad actions are another's free will to carry out and why would I infringe upon that if I feel it just? You are freer than you think, I say. You are indeed your own prison. You can't control what others do over your expressions of freedom but free you are to do it anyways, and always. Also, social norms are rapidly in flux, but no one has to follow the other. You're freer than you think.

[andy06shake]

I dont require rules and i may act freely. The consequences for bad actions are another's free will to carry out and why would I infringe upon that if I feel it just? You are freer than you think, I say. You are indeed your own prison. You can't control what others do over your expressions of freedom but free you are to do it anyways, and always. Also, social norms are rapidly in flux, but no one has to follow the other. You're freer than you think.

And yet you follow them every day.

Humans need rules, else anarchy prevails.

And then the colour of the day equates to survival of the fittest.

Could you handle the world that way ReturnofBroccoli?

Because it would tear itself apart at the seams.

[Sirius]

And yet you follow them every day.

Humans need rules, else anarchy prevails.

And then the colour of the day equates to survival of the fittest.

Could you handle the world that way ReturnofBroccoli?

Because it would tear itself apart at the seams.

The problem is that everything you say is to protect your own survival, that's why you want to keep the status quo and jump through every hoop imageable to keep it. What you are stating is the limits of your own imagination, and what is the source of imagination? "anarchy prevails" "tear itself apart at the seams" this is your projection and so is "who in their right mind would" and "complete and utter clown shoes". Your projection, your perception cast onto the environment geared towards your survival, not reality, reality would be seeing the environment, the world that you can't handle.

Not a personal attack just blunt facts. Your bias towards survival precludes you from recognizing that your fellow human beings are molded by their environment to the extent that you dehumanize them. "their environment" is yours, who shapes and enables it, who defends it?

When was it? A month ago, I don't know, broke some stuff again..walked around seeing everyone's diseases and other things for a couple of days, one of those woo woo weird times. Standing on a rooftop in town, having a smoke looking down;

There is a small field, a little dirt path with cropped grass towards a convenience store. A man lying in the grass next to the path, obviously dead. Someone in a suite walks by to get lunch doesn't stop 

It happens often, the first time I encountered something like that I was 16. A public park in the morning, lots of people sitting around. Saw a person lying at the tree in front of where we were. Thought to myself "that guy is dead, is this for real?" said as much, walked over, yup, dead. Looked around, no one cared

[andy06shake]

The problem is that everything you say is to protect your own survival, that's why you want to keep the status quo and jump through every hoop imageable to keep it. What you are stating is the limits of your own imagination, and what is the source of imagination? "anarchy prevails" "tear itself apart at the seams" this is your projection and so is "who in their right mind would" and "complete and utter clown shoes". Your projection, your perception cast onto the environment geared towards your survival, not reality, reality would be seeing the environment, the world that you can't handle.

Not a personal attack just blunt facts. Your bias towards survival precludes you from recognizing that your fellow human beings are molded by their environment to the extent that you dehumanize them. "their environment" is yours, who shapes and enables it, who defends it?

When was it? A month ago, I don't know, broke some stuff again..walked around seeing everyone's diseases and other things for a couple of days, one of those woo woo weird times. Standing on a rooftop in town, having a smoke looking down;

There is a small field, a little dirt path with cropped grass towards a convenience store. A man lying in the grass next to the path, obviously dead. Someone in a suite walks by to get lunch doesn't stop 

It happens often, the first time I encountered something like that I was 16. A public park in the morning, lots of people sitting around. Saw a person lying at the tree in front of where we were. Thought to myself "that guy is dead, is this for real?" said as much, walked over, yup, dead. Looked around, no one cared

Nice assessment, full of anecdotes, but completely wrong, at least where i am concerned.

A bit of advice, lose the fascination with me and return to the topic at hand.

As to bias towards survival, what a load of tripe.

What other colour of the day is there apart from survival? LoL

[UltraBudgie]

[much]

First have of comment, "like", second half of comment "cry". No button for that so I have to make a little quote reply.

And I guess a fuhrer comment to the thread topic: if you are perfectly free but living in a totalitarian society, are you perfectly free? Or completely enslaved? Is a pseudo-democracy where all the choices must conform to covert orthodoxy totalitarian? Are you only free when you close your eyes?

Living is easy with eyes closed
Misunderstanding all you see
It's getting hard to be someone, but it all works out
It doesn't matter much to me