Are we the true leaders?

[MichSwampbuck]

I have thought that a space colony could operate like you suggest. However, humans need their enemies, it seems. Rivalries and competition can proceed by way of sports once the colony has developed enough to be safe and stable. But that could be playing with fire, where you eventually get a "Lord of the Flies" scenario.

People will strive to be better than the "others" on a personal level as well as in groups.  The only way to avoid that would be to create a society that deals with those instincts somehow while insulating the colonists from the influences of the larger population on Earth.

Perhaps those characteristics are necessary for survival, especially out in space, where a Klingon culture might be more viable than a weaker Federation-style culture. The aggressive and domineering percent of the population could be used as an advanced guard that strikes out ahead of the rest, taming new territory for future colonies.

[andy06shake]

I have thought that a space colony could operate like you suggest. However, humans need their enemies, it seems. Rivalries and competition can proceed by way of sports once the colony has developed enough to be safe and stable. But that could be playing with fire, where you eventually get a "Lord of the Flies" scenario.

People will strive to be better than the "others" on a personal level as well as in groups.  The only way to avoid that would be to create a society that deals with those instincts somehow while insulating the colonists from the influences of the larger population on Earth.

Perhaps those characteristics are necessary for survival, especially out in space, where a Klingon culture might be more viable than a weaker Federation-style culture. The aggressive and domineering percent of the population could be used as an advanced guard that strikes out ahead of the rest, taming new territory for future colonies.

We certainly are not after a utopia, given the imperfect animal that we are.

But something better than the present.

With fewer injustices, a lot more fairness, actual opportunities.

And less suffering, might be nice.

[UltraBudgie]

it would be nice to have a society
that minimized scarcity and inequality
rather than monetizing them
oh wait thats commonist
to even try

[andy06shake]

it would be nice to have a society
that minimized scarcity and inequality
rather than monetizing them
oh wait thats commonist
to even try

On paper, Communisum works perfectly.

But people are not paper.

They are corruptible for a start.

Which is why it can never realistically work in practice.

[UltraBudgie]

On paper, Communisum works perfectly.

But people are not paper.

They are corruptible for a start.

Which is why it can never realistically work in practice.

oh okay
never mind then
thank you
for explaining

[andy06shake]

oh okay
never mind then
thank you
for explaining

I suggest that's more like a simple observation.

As opposed to a real explanation.

History and all that jazz. 

[UltraBudgie]

I suggest that's more like a simple observation.

As opposed to a real explanation.

History and all that jazz. 

yes thank you history

we must have a society
that uses money to leverage
scarcity and inequality

because the commonist alternative is
(checks notes)

a society
with scarcity and inequality
okay

[andy06shake]

yes thank you history

we must have a society
that uses money to leverage
scarcity and inequality

because the commonist alternative is
(checks notes)

a society
with scarcity and inequality
okay

Must we?

Socialism works better than communism imho.

But it's still a form of government devised by man.

Hence, less than perfect to say the least.

The same with democracy or any other form of rule.

Scarcity is always going to be a concern unless you have some sort of Star Trek replicator technology you are hiding under the bed.

As to inequality, the fact is that people are not equal, which is the main dilemma there.

Nonetheless, that does not mean we should not strive towards a modecum of equality for all.

What kind of functional society do you imagine would not use money? 

Because without a universal medium of exchange to simplify trade, you're going to experience all sorts of problems.

Money is a necessary evil if you ever wish to get anything done. 

And that's just how the cookie crumbles.

[UltraBudgie]

generally when one begins a statement with
"it would be nice to have..."
what follows is an idealistic aspiration

but i suppose we could do
"it would be nice to have...
grudging acceptance of the status quo
and acceptance of anything better
as unrealistic and impossible"

if you want

[FlyersFan]

A leader who chooses peace is a leader of the people!

That's all fine and dandy if no one is on the other side trying to take you over.
Russia is expansionist.   So is Communist China.   
Poor countries send millions out to illegally immigrate and take over other countries that way.
A leader is someone who chooses to protect the people he/she is leading.
Sitting in an office with your eyes closed and singing kumbaya isn't leadership.