3rd shooting in Minnesota.

[andy06shake]

No, the people who got shot were protesters.  So they were already protesting.

There is not a pattern of lethal force.  Good hit the agent hard enough to audibly knock the wind out of him.  Pretti's arrest may have been botched but he seemed to be trying to impede federal agents from detaining a woman.

They are throwing rocks and frozen water bottles at agents and ICE supporters.  They are impeding as much as they dare.  There are people posting death threats against ICE agents on various platforms.

Would you support the party you didn't vote for using violence to get its own way in your country?  By impeding government officials, no less?

It's no "minor oops" but it is an exception and a mistake.

The people who got shot weren't attacking anyone, they were protesting or trying to flee.

Saying "there’s no pattern of lethal force" ignores multiple civilians being killed by federal agents, never mind the multitude of video evidence.

These are not the droids we are looking for simply won't fly this time around. 

Pretti wasn't some violent instigator, he was nurse, not an illegal.

The video shows him filming officers and trying to help, not physically assaulting anyone.

The idea that throwing rocks or bottles justifies being shot dead...

That's not how law works.

You wouldn't support the party you oppose using deadly force to get its way, so why excuse federal agents doing exactly that?

Accountability matters Solvedit, even if it is inconvenient.

It's my bedtime now anyway, 1/4 to 2 am on my side of the pond. 

And i don't imagine we are going to see eye to eye.

[chr0naut]

The question was, 

who among our non-US posters is willing to vote to create a situation in which millions can skate in illegally? 

First, you say no Joe Biden-like figure opened your borders but your immigration is "legal and regulated," then you say most of them wind up contributing.  Surprise, surprise. 

Are you willing to vote to change your policy to open borders, then to interfere with law enforcement when they try to undo the situation?

Here's some ideas:

Streamline the immigration procedure to favour those with skills and trades and families, who are going to be good workers, civic contributors, and tax payers.

Repel the bad guys at the borders and treat crime within the country as, well, crime within the country. Do so with well funded existing police forces, and with standardized procedures, better cross-communications and agency cooperation to track, locate and arrest offenders more efficiently and quickly. Just as if we have computers and such! A private integrated internet of offender tracking and processing?

Actually monetize the immigration process (Trump claims to be great at business, but he always fails to see an opportunity when it is handed to him, instead he goes for the 'hare brained and failure' scheme, all the time), i.e. make crossing the border cover the costs of policing the border - and also cover the costs of dealing with new immigrants in the way that they would hope to be treated in their new country. All done with no burden upon US citizens!

Cut out the crime-aligned coyotes by undercutting them on risk and ease of process, through migration planning, cultural and civic education, suitability screening, funds transfer, travel, payment, tax and social registration, job placement, pre-planned housing, and other assistance, all in one package, before they come, on their time, and in the currencies of other countries.

Cut out the profitability of illicit drugs by prescribing clean quality drugs at a lower price and risk than the crims could ever do, under prescription and medical supervision with an intention and plan for ending their dependence. In one swoop, you would remove drugs from potential criminal income streams if they couldn't profit.

Too hard?

[Solvedit]

trying to flee.

Bull. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F4dEx2wzTA

She clearly hit him hard enough to knock the wind out of him.

[Solvedit]

The idea that throwing rocks or bottles justifies being shot dead...

The rock and bottle throwers are not being shot dead.  

If there were the pattern of lethal force which you allege, they probably wouldn't be throwing rocks and bottles.  

I.e. it's the protesters with the consistent pattern of using as much violence as they dare.  Law enforcement has actually shown heroic restraint although the Pretti shooting looked hasty from what little I saw, but we may yet see oversight exercised.

[DBCowboy]

I have yet to see ICE shoot people just protesting.

Protesting is legal.

Interfering with an arrest, interfering with law enforcement is not legal.

You might get shot as shown.

[andy06shake]

Bull. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F4dEx2wzTA

Just proves the point that we dont see eye to eye.

It's just circles, i would rather read a couple of chapters of my book. 

Good night. 

All is well. 

[KrustyKrab]

Nice try. The numbers have changed since you last checked.

So has ICE leadership in Minnesota.

So has Trumps tone since calling Walz, and making nice.

Nice try of what?   Just stating who’s pushing the investigation and that it’s biz as usual with them.   My gawd man you’re reading way too much into this crap.   

What’s wrong with shuffling people around?   Considering the situation I think it was a very smart thing to do. 

and heaven forbid Trump is trying to work with the other side under not the greatest of circumstances.  My gawd that’s just terrible how dare he, yeah?

That’s just stupid to think Trumps backing down or are you just trying to prove he’s in the wrong in some weird Trump persecution crusade of yours?

[vonclod]

To make more room for the Somalians. And to help ISIS get going again killing non Muslims. Probably got the Muslim Brother hood get started. Oh yeah Oboso was marvelous. 

Way to put words in my mouth
I said he didn't make a spectacle of it.

Watch the vid yet?? the one where they disarm him and then shoot him?

[Solvedit]

Actually monetize the immigration process (Trump claims to be great at business, but he always fails to see an opportunity when it is handed to him, instead he goes for the 'hare brained and failure' scheme, all the time), i.e. make crossing the border cover the costs of policing the border - and also cover the costs of dealing with new immigrants in the way that they would hope to be treated in their new country.

Trump actually ran on that policy. The cost of visas was supposed to pay for the wall.

Cut out the crime-aligned coyotes by undercutting them on risk and ease of process, through migration planning, cultural and civic education, suitability screening, funds transfer, travel, payment, tax and social registration, job placement, pre-planned housing, and other assistance, all in one package, before they come.

Cut out the profitability of illicit drugs by prescribing clean quality drugs at a lower price and risk than the crims could ever do, under prescription and medical supervision with an intention and plan for ending their dependence. In one swoop, you would remove drugs from potential criminal income streams if they couldn't profit.

Too hard?

Leaving the border open may have let in a few too many for your plan. Legalizing hard drugs may work but won't get much support in the USA.

You make it sound like the USA should use its resources to find room for all the newcomers but there will always be more.

[KrustyKrab]

I have yet to see ICE shoot people just protesting.

Protesting is legal.

Interfering with an arrest, interfering with law enforcement is not legal.

You might get shot as shown.

Funny that….me neither.