America’s Secret War in Venezuela

[DBCowboy]

They'll mask any aggression or demonization as anything but the true nature of the beast....big oil

Afghanistan...pffff.   Had nothing to do with Taliban, Isis, Bin Laden or the poppy.  Those were simply subject matter used to sell it to the public.   Oil's the name of the game.  Always was, always will be.

Bonus points or finding the map of our FOBs and how they line up with a "then-proposed" pipeline

If we can wipe out a communist regime AND get oil, then win-win

[CriticalStinker]

If we can wipe out a communist regime AND get oil, then win-win

Like with Iraq?

Thousands of soldiers dead, far more committed suicide, trillions of dollars spent.

Bonus points, gas prices went up and oil companies kept all the profits.

[UltraBudgie]

Like with Iraq?

Thousands of soldiers dead, far more committed suicide, trillions of dollars spent.

Bonus points, gas prices went up and oil companies kept all the profits.

First, do you think Iraq was in danger of Communism? But I get that you're claiming it was a debacle. It wasn't. The US got exactly what it wanted from Iraq. Are they a threat to the US any more? To our allies in the region? An asset to Iran? Is there a caliphate there?

It was always going to cost time, money, and lives. What I still find objectionable is the amount of lies the American public required to feel happy and righteous. Either that, or being lured with greed. Geopolitics is a dirty job; don't blame the establishment for giving you the dumb illusions required to feel good about playing it. That's on the American people. "The hate us for our freedom!" Lol. It was absurd.

And what, you want to nationalize oil and gas companies? Yes, they made profits. You say "gas prices went up", but so did the price of everything; that's called inflation. And what would the price of gas have been if an anti-US cartel had taken hold in the middle east, centred around Iraq?

And in Venezuela, if you don't want the same fake-oopsie 10 years from now, stop requiring the shinola BS of fighting drugs, terrorism, communism, migrants, or high oil prices today. It's about compliance and threats to economic hegemony, and that's how it will be played, regardless of whatever coat of paint has to be put on the issue.

[CriticalStinker]

First, do you think Iraq was in danger of Communism? But I get that you're claiming it was a debacle. It wasn't. The US got exactly what it wanted from Iraq. Are they a threat to the US any more? To our allies in the region? An asset to Iran? Is there a caliphate there?

It was always going to cost time, money, and lives. What I still find objectionable is the amount of lies the American public required to feel happy and righteous. Either that, or being lured with greed. Geopolitics is a dirty job; don't blame the establishment for giving you the dumb illusions required to feel good about playing it. That's on the American people. "The hate us for our freedom!" Lol. It was absurd.

And what, you want to nationalize oil and gas companies? Yes, they made profits. You say "gas prices went up", but so did the price of everything; that's called inflation. And what would the price of gas have been if an anti-US cartel had taken hold in the middle east, centred around Iraq?

And in Venezuela, if you don't want the same fake-oopsie 10 years from now, stop requiring the shinola BS of fighting drugs, terrorism, communism, migrants, or high oil prices today. It's about compliance and threats to economic hegemony, and that's how it will be played, regardless of whatever coat of paint has to be put on the issue.

Yea, the communism part didn’t apply here, more the oil part.

To my knowledge, Iraq wasn’t a threat to our troops in the region though. Sadaam knew his place after the gulf war.

Their regime wasn’t sympathetic to Iran, on the contrary, it was actually keeping them in check. Those two were mortal enemies and had an incredibly bloody war in the 80’s. Toppling Iraq actually created a vacuum that Iran filled, and took one of their only near peers out in the region, giving them more power.

Im also not suggesting we nationalize oil. It didn’t go up because of inflation though, it went up due to war in the region. Look up oil prices from 99’-04’. We paid trillions, paid more for gas, and oil companies got the profit. If anything, that was nationalizing their profits. Socialize profits, privatize gains.

We’re the number one oil producer right now. We produce more than anyone ever has. We don’t need to pay for conflict for more, we have it. That’s energy independence, not fighting other countries so our companies can profit off taxpayers dollars.

[UltraBudgie]

We’re the number one oil producer right now. We produce more than anyone ever has. We don’t need to pay for conflict for more, we have it. That’s energy independence, not fighting other countries so our companies can profit off taxpayers dollars.

Well yes. The US has always been blessed with abundant natural resources. But maintaining one's place at the top of the military pyramid and as big-dog in world trade isn't just about one's own wealth. It's about the wealth of others, who might pose a challenge. Think of it like UBI: the pipe dream that if everyone gets tons of free money, everyone will be wealthy. But, in a system driven by scarcity, control of which equals power, it is the relative deprivation of others that gives wealth its value. Thus, with Venezuela, it's not so much about getting their crappy bitter crude—even though we have the means to refine it—it's about preventing Russia or China or Iran or some Libya-like South American break-out or whoever from benefiting from it, contrary to our interests. Giving it to Shell or Chevron or whoever to turn into plastic and dump in a landfill would be better than that, really.

[FlyersFan]

At the risk of bringing in the woo-woo

Maria Esperanza and Betania Venezuela

Maria Esperanza, of Betania Venezuela,  had 31 apparitions of the Virgin Mary over many years ... 15 I think.   She heard from Jesus in locutions as well.   She prophecied that a great global disaster was going to happen and that it would start in Venezuela.  World wars coming out of Venezuela.  She had other prophecies as well, notably in the early 1980s she talked about smart medical devices that could come up with amazing cures (AI??).   

The apparitions of Betania have full Catholic church approval.  They've been through the investigative process by the church, which usually determines things not to be worthy of belief.   In this case, they gave a rare approval.

Maria Esperanza died in 2004 and has been declared 'Servant of God'.  This is a title given after an investigation of the person is made and it usually is the first step when the church later goes to investigate for Canonization (Sainthood).

I went to Betania to the main apparition site and the outdoor church there in 1994.   Caracas sucked, but the site was nice.  Remote.   Prayerful.   Nice.

[CriticalStinker]

Well yes. The US has always been blessed with abundant natural resources. But maintaining one's place at the top of the military pyramid and as big-dog in world trade isn't just about one's own wealth. It's about the wealth of others, who might pose a challenge. Think of it like UBI: the pipe dream that if everyone gets tons of free money, everyone will be wealthy. But, in a system driven by scarcity, control of which equals power, it is the relative deprivation of others that gives wealth its value. Thus, with Venezuela, it's not so much about getting their crappy bitter crude—even though we have the means to refine it—it's about preventing Russia or China or Iran or some Libya-like South American break-out or whoever from benefiting from it, contrary to our interests. Giving it to Shell or Chevron or whoever to turn into plastic and dump in a landfill would be better than that, really.

I suppose there are times and places for actions like that. And it will really come down to how it would transpire. If it’s all posturing, and we can do this with soft power and little cost, not the end of the world. If we get involved in an engagement and occupation, we’re about a year off from interest payments being our largest federal expenditure without adding new costs. 

That said, nothing has happened yet. I just don’t see a huge case for something benefiting the average American, even with a soft power low impact play.

[imitator]

At the risk of bringing in the woo-woo

Maria Esperanza and Betania Venezuela

Maria Esperanza, of Betania Venezuela,  had 31 apparitions of the Virgin Mary over many years ... 15 I think.   She heard from Jesus in locutions as well.   She prophecied that a great global disaster was going to happen and that it would start in Venezuela.  World wars coming out of Venezuela.  She had other prophecies as well, notably in the early 1980s she talked about smart medical devices that could come up with amazing cures (AI??).   

The apparitions of Betania have full Catholic church approval.  They've been through the investigative process by the church, which usually determines things not to be worthy of belief.   In this case, they gave a rare approval.

Maria Esperanza died in 2004 and has been declared 'Servant of God'.  This is a title given after an investigation of the person is made and it usually is the first step when the church later goes to investigate for Canonization (Sainthood).

I went to Betania to the main apparition site and the outdoor church there in 1994.   Caracas sucked, but the site was nice.  Remote.   Prayerful.   Nice.

Was that Vatican approved?

[UltraBudgie]

I went to Betania to the main apparition site and the outdoor church there in 1994.   Caracas sucked, but the site was nice.  Remote.   Prayerful.   Nice.

That is very cool! Pics? Although 1994 was a long time ago. Too bad places like that are shut down to travel from the US.

[Unknownparadox]

First, do you think Iraq was in danger of Communism? But I get that you're claiming it was a debacle. It wasn't. The US got exactly what it wanted from Iraq. Are they a threat to the US any more? To our allies in the region? An asset to Iran? Is there a caliphate there?

Who cares if Iraq was communist? It was a debacle. "We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." Yeah that's anywhere in the world.
 

 
Geopolitics is a dirty job; don't blame the establishment for giving you the dumb illusions required to feel good about playing it.

Sounds like my X wife. I couldn't tell you I am a lying cheating whore. Because you couldn't handle it. Never mind I made the decision you couldn't handle it. And never mind I was the one lying. Just forget all about that. Just know it's your fault and not mine.
 

"gas prices went up", but so did the price of everything; that's called inflation

When you destabilize the very thing the world is built on. Not to mention when you make a move to control more of the worlds oil supply. The very thing it runs on, is made of, and can't operate without. That's not inflation. Of course the idiots that think we are going to have a world without oil, well are idiots. There isn't a thing that oil doesn't touch in one way or another. 
 

And in Venezuela, if you don't want the same fake-oopsie 10 years from now, stop requiring the shinola BS of fighting drugs, terrorism, communism, migrants, or high oil prices today.

Last I checked no one requires lies. it's the people doing the lying that tells you that you need them.

America is moving toward controlling the worlds oil supply, slowly but surely. That's why biden blew up nord stream 2. Now Europe gets a lot more energy from guess who. Of course he opened up a lot of oil leases and okay'd a double super tanker port for that reason.

While he was saving the world from Co2.