Some tidbits from my time in Israel

[BeTheGoddess]

this site seems less full of absolute israel simps than ATS. i appreciate you sharing your experience, hopefully some of them see this and can start to empathize more with the plight of the palestinians. 

i am no terrorism supporter, but israeli propagandists told us to 'look into the history' so i did, and the vast majority of the time it only makes israel look more evil.

i think andrew tate articulated pretty much my exact viewpoint on this whole situation quite well:
[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pMsYSR7g78]

i dont have a tiktok, but a few months ago what appeared to be an authentic letter allegedly by osama bin laden stating his motivations for 9/11 went viral, and while he certainly has other grievances with the wicked western world, one of the main ones appeared to be... wait for it... the oppression of palestine.
it's a little hard to find nowadays so here's a link that works at the time of this post.
 
anyway, i see no easy solution and can only pray daily for peace and safety for all innocents.

Not really familliar with Andrew Tate, but the Late Osama Bin Laden I do know of and he was close to US gov and the Saudi royals are alligned with the UK, so it is a huge stretch for it to be legit.

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I can sense your disaffection with all things Israel.  But I must caution you... no, this isn't a political take.

Everything that any 'government' OR "leadership" pursues, or mandates isn't the "collective will of the people."  Ever. 

That is a meme and trope we have been "convinced" of, and readily accepted. 

Most people in Israel have absolutely no control over the actions of their "representatives" in the media - not any more than you or I do in our respective countries.  The same goes for that collection of people who wish for their 'idealized' Palestinian State.  And nearly all only have that 'media,' or specially 'directed' information, to go on in their daily lives.

I not so humbly offer a tip: Hate the actions, not the scenery. Most citizens are scenery.  In most matters international, "perspective" can't be tolerated as an excuse for violence, or threats of violence.  Violence only hurts people, not governments - the "problem" comes from governments and their "perspectives."

The how and why people acquiesce to the exploits of "governments acting in their name" is far too complicated to account for.  But the "cause" we are exposed to of "curtailing Israeli success" is palpable.  Someone somewhere keeps this cause alive.  I reject the idea that it is theological... that wouldn't make coherent sense.

I'm sure you aren't ignoring the choices BOTH states have "made" over the decades.  Where those choices led could not have been overlooked.

This is a plan.  The "information war" is being conducted according to a plan.  The media complicity is far too conveniently placed.  This isn't "everybody's business" as the globalists seem to prefer.  This is a regional conflict, as egregious and unappealing as MANY other ongoing, recent, and past conflicts which the media sees fit to ignore and fails to compare.  

Much of the outrage is manufactured.  Most of it is 'crafted' via a narrative full of one-sided considerations and perspectives then 'made active' by the insertion of faux-authoritative opinions.

And now, more on topic.  (Sorry about that digression, none of it was particularly "aimed" at either poster before me... it was an impulse.)

While I will never be invited to visit, I think it is a great service to warn me about the pizza.  I hadn't considered that, and I probably would "try" it, were I visiting.  Nothing worse to a New Yorker than unexpectedly "bad" pizza.

I have to say, I do understand your takeaway about "indoctrination."  I've seen that too (and not just relating to Israel.) When you join the military, it is appropriate, I think, to become more 'strident' and 'patriotic.'  But that's part of the gig.  Some returning from training seem "over the top." I noticed that even here (US) in our military, I found that it fades into reality fairly well... but not always... if your more "activist minded."  It can, and sometimes does, offend though.

Being older I can tell you that in my youth I lived in places where the bakery you describe could have been replicated.  I can only say that people were satisfied that "it serves."  Sometimes that we which consider 'regrettable' in other countries is purely a 'foreign perspective' ... among all the regrettable things in their lives...  that's not one they dwell on... it serves.

"Genocide" is a carefully selected label for what you're discussing.  I can't help but wonder how 'from the river to the sea' is not a genocidal idea.

For the record, I "support" neither side, who I think are only "playing" a game with the lives of people they don't care about or for.  Isn't it fun?

Its not tho, many nations are not formed by war, nobody died at Australia's constitutional conferences of the late 19th c. Nations can be formed without bloodfshed, like it has happened.

But Australia is certainly not without its own genocide, and its a fair comparison between out indigenous and the colonizer, to the plight of the Palestinians. Many regional communities are similar to the communities in the West Bank.

Oh, but theres more. Australian colonizers did commit genocide, it was like kill them all and we just pretend they never existed. The idea of Terra Nullius was what they were aiming for. Yeah, complete genocide. We even let tho British nuke first people, but thats a whole other story.

Israel needs to end its colonizer state and set up a secular one where all peoples of Israel can be treated equally. We eventually ended the colonies and became a nation in a peaceful way. Our indigenour are no longer considered "fauna".