(07-04-2024, 10:39 AM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: My first reaction was to say things start out as 'chance' and then get refined as 'intelligent' design, but I realized this wasn't right either because I had ignored the option of 'nothing at all' in my assumption.
The "nothing at all" is definitely the most incomprehensibly bizarre in all of this, and at face value I'm sure most would undoubtedly get the wrong idea here and conceive of an empty universe i.e. a 3D void, and this just isn't the case. The concept of "nothing" is taken a bit further than that – to a nearly ultimate extreme actually.
What we are basically looking for here is a default state of existence from which everything springs. This default state can either be continuous or recurring, so this concept of 'nothing' does leave a bit of wiggle room, but not much, and while a recurring theme appears to solve some time problems e.g. infinite regression in a spatiotemporal sense, it also leads to the ultimate absurdity of the emergence of 'something' from absolutely 'nothing'.
It seems to me that it would be extremely difficult(but not impossible) to even arrive at such a concept of 'nothing' absent the science of cosmology, and in that particular scenario all one needs do really is just reverse the expansion to arrive at its origin – a singularity. This "singularity"(a spatial negation) is definitely in the ballpark of 'nothing', but of course it's people like me that will milk such a concept for all it's worth to arrive at some sort of eternal algorithm i.e. the way eternity actually functions.
(07-04-2024, 10:39 AM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: If we look at genetics we can get some good clues. Take a dog for example. A certain breed of dog has natural tendencies, say a hunting dog for example. If you selectively breed this dog with other more refined characteristics the resultant dog becomes an even better hunter. This is to say that it's natural "instinct" as a hunter has been enhanced through this genetic refinement process. (I used to breed, raise and train Labradors). Another example I can cite from personal experience is in breeding cattle. We raise Belted Galloways. There are just regular Galloways also, but Belted(s) are a refined strain of the larger breed. What's interesting here is, the "Belt" follows the bull. The cow seems to have little to do with the proper formation of the famous white 'belt' around the animal. At the same time, the qualities unique to the Galloway breed also follow the bull, but not the cow. So, for example, we have one cow who is 50% Angus. I can breed her back to a Galloway bull and I'll get a Galloway calf every time, BUT I don't always get one with a belt (i.e. chance). Do the same thing with any of my other 100% cows and I'll always get a belt if I'm breeding to a belted bull (i.e. intelligent design).
About the only conclusion I can draw from this is there is both chance and intelligent design going on in this process. Beyond this, I am left with a number of clues to a larger answer I'm not sure we (anyone) fully understand yet.
The idea here is to evaluate chance as precursor to an ordered system at its deepest root. We already know that "chance"/probability can exist as part of an ordered system after the fact, but what we really want to know is who is at the helm prior to this 'ship' setting sail? Is there anyone at the helm?
The Singularity and Quantum Fluctuations
This sounds a lot to me like the mind of this primordial 'thing' is beginning to get really fired up in preparation for some sort of creative explosion – a BIG BANG!?
The QF's also align with why I would put time before space. I don't expect FCD to reply to any of this; I just used his posts as an excuse to write something.
