Will this forum remain Politics-free?

[Raptured]

Curious if y'all have a plan regarding political discussions for this site.

Some love it.  Some hate it. 

or...maybe it's buried somewhere and I simply missed it.  

A fear of mine is that the "other" site will truly disappear and DI will see an influx of new members who bring their poison with them

[Tecate]

FFS I hope not!
The “did not!/did too!” Crowd can take their crap elsewhere.

Tecate

[Maxmars]

Curious if y'all have a plan regarding political discussions for this site.

Some love it.  Some hate it. 

or...maybe it's buried somewhere and I simply missed it.  

A fear of mine is that the "other" site will truly disappear and DI will see an influx of new members who bring their poison with them

((Just for the record, so there won't be any confusion, this is the response of MaxMars, a member, not some kind of positional or policy statement of Deny Ignorance, I am a Moderator, not a representative of anything other than our common efforts to help our discussions and community generally.  All DI staff, like you, have deep convictions, personal opinions, and relevant points regarding your question... this is mine))

In regards to the main question I can only expand on things I have previously indicated elsewhere...

• If by "politics" you mean discussing political philosophy, ideological rationale, or perhaps comparative social constructs, the answer swerves one way.
  
• If by "politics" you mean the structure and disposition of government authority and the scope of the organization of government, the answer might veer, but would be generally the same as above.
  
• If by politics, you mean the reverberations and echoes of the thespian-produced celebrity gameshow, it's "sides" and "teams" championed by paid pseudo-activists and attention whores... the answer should likely swerve negatively.
  
• If by politics you mean "politicians" I would suggest (if it were up to me,) No way. Cult of personality (celebrity) is all "cult." Pointless and empty, and utterly removed from useful reality, like worshipping an empty idol.  
  

We seek dialogue here, not proselytization, not persecution... it's hard enough to do without people who think "courage and enterprise" has anything to do with popularity contests and public relations.  Or that a slogan or tag-line actually conveys information.

The "politics" that most people recommend "not talking about" is particularly the latter. 

Discussions that follow and promote concepts of "heroes" and "villainy" (sort of like Hollywood..., imagine that?) Cheering for sides and launching impotent jabs and memes at one another while openly laughing and chortling over how clever we are, and how foolish the other person is for not agreeing....  in other words, the "theater" of politics... yeah that we can do without. (Those people do what they have done for MANY decades... ignore the problem and focus on a person to 'represent it.'  Bash that person and you posture as a virtuous hero 'fighting against a "problem."  But you're not.  It's all 'signal' and no progress.)

Save that crap for the "mainstream" laboratory experiments out there already... we didn't come here to "join the party of clown thespians" or "sway with the virtue signalers." 

ATS's one failing in my opinion, is that it gave way to 'political activism.'  'Political activism' is agitation with glorified bias...  We don't need that here... it already exists in abundance nearly everywhere else... and is serving no useful purpose towards discussion except to provide examples of how "not" to do it if you want to actually understand anything.

Just my 2 cents...

[FlyersFan]

You can't talk about conspiracies without talking about politics.  
They pretty much go together.

---

You can't talk about conspiracies without talking about politics.  
They pretty much go together.

[l0st]

You can't talk about conspiracies without talking about politics.  
They pretty much go together.

---

You can't talk about conspiracies without talking about politics.  
They pretty much go together.

There is some truth to this. The problem with the CT boards in 2024 IMHO is not that people also discuss politics on them but that they've become a target for rampant political trolling. Its one thing to have a civil debate and another entirely to just sit there mudslinging at each other with no real discussion going on.

I've observed what's happened to the community over the years and its really sad and terrible how the great discussions we used to have are being derailed and torn apart by entities who insist on injecting their political vitriol into virtually every single subject one can possibly discuss.

A slow rot that has occurred on ATS since the addition of politics to that forum and the seeming lack of moderation of such in its later years. As I recall, when politics there began to gain traffic there were some videos and an offshoot they tried to build out but I believe it was not successful and the political forums ended up permanently rolled into ATS. Bad idea. I know they tried to right the ship by moving political discussion to the mudpit but it was too little too late. Politics may bring traffic and ad revenue but it will destroy the rest of the forum if left unchecked.

I saw that political trolling is against the rules here, so figure I'd try out this last bastion of CT on the internet before they're all gone. Every other CT forum (and I've seen them all, I think) has fallen to political trolling.

[theshadowknows]

There is some truth to this. The problem with the CT boards in 2024 IMHO is not that people also discuss politics on them but that they've become a target for rampant political trolling. Its one thing to have a civil debate and another entirely to just sit there mudslinging at each other with no real discussion going on.

I've observed what's happened to the community over the years and its really sad and terrible how the great discussions we used to have are being derailed and torn apart by entities who insist on injecting their political vitriol into virtually every single subject one can possibly discuss.

A slow rot that has occurred on ATS since the addition of politics to that forum and the seeming lack of moderation of such in its later years. As I recall, when politics there began to gain traffic there were some videos and an offshoot they tried to build out but I believe it was not successful and the political forums ended up permanently rolled into ATS. Bad idea. I know they tried to right the ship by moving political discussion to the mudpit but it was too little too late. Politics may bring traffic and ad revenue but it will destroy the rest of the forum if left unchecked.

I saw that political trolling is against the rules here, so figure I'd try out this last bastion of CT on the internet before they're all gone. Every other CT forum (and I've seen them all, I think) has fallen to political trolling.

I couldn't have said it better myself. You're correct. You don't hear about politics on Coast to Coast, not from leading UFO experts like Knapp and Corbell, not from anyone in the conspiracy theorist community outside of web forums. Not for the most part anyway. I'm sure there are exceptions though I'm not thinking of off the top of my head. My point is that politics will alienate an audience just as fast as it'll build one. I don't want us to be that kind of community. None of us trust the government, but to me that isn't a partisan issue.
 

24. Politics: Political discussions not related to conspiracy theories are generally prohibited on DI. However, exceptions may be made in certain circumstances. This policy aims to prevent instances of mudslinging, personal attacks, and derailing discussions from the main focus of conspiracy theories.

Correction: Maybe from this guy. I miss Bohemian Grove Alex. I don't know who this guy is anymore. Fun game tho. 

[Maxmars]

 

[FlyingClayDisk]

Warning! - Unpopular Opinion Ahead -

 I personally believe no discussion board can continue to exist without a political discussion section.  I believe this to be particularly true for any website which focuses any sort of conspiratorial, controversial or current events content.  Many say politics ruined other sites (such as ATS); I disagree.  In fact, I would posit the exact opposite; attempts by other websites to curtail, restrict or eliminate political discussion see a dramatic drop in participation across the entire site after which they languish in the sun, wither and drift off into irrelevancy.  The facts are, politics occupy almost every single element of the news cycle today, and better than 90% of all the conspiratorial / controversial subjects of our time boil down to political in nature.  Squashing this type of discussion and content only reduces overall contribution on a site such as this.

Case in point; there are a total of 6,722 posts (total, all forums) here on DI since its inception, compared to 22,539 posts in just the last 7 calendar days on ATS (104,841 posts in the past 30 days).  Granted DI is relatively new compared to ATS, but the lion's share of active ATS members (key being 'active') are members here on DI.  So, why the difference?  Well, for one thing, politics often draws participants in, and they then engage on (10) other non-politics subjects while there.  Exclude/prohibit politics, and many of those same individuals do not engage at all.

The other thing I think some are missing is the fact that other websites (ATS is only one example) didn't suddenly shift their focus to political activism, the world outside did.  Between the MSM, social media and numerous other factors, the new paradigm is politics.  Bottom line - politics is what people are talking about, regardless of any website focus.  Failure to realize this is conscious failure to accept what is going on outside one's window.  Politics IS the new conspiracy, and more importantly than ever; politics is the one area where seeking the "truth" and "denial of ignorance" is paramount to survival.  Refusing to recognize this is burying one's head in the sand.  All due respect to members who are interested in paranormal studies, UFO's and other supernatural phenomenon, these are indeed interesting subject areas, but in today's age these same topics alone are not sufficient to sustain a discussion forum today.

One only needs to look at the social media website 'reddit' to see the staggering proportion of political discussions in comparison to all other topics added together.  Yes, policy makers and site creators can say...'well, we just don't want that here!'...and this is fine, but realize by saying this that you turn away large segments of your potential content providers and audience by doing so.  If people are content living in this bubble, then this is fine also, but just know there is a very good probability that is all it will ever be, a bubble.

Again, I'm sure this opinion and editorial statement is a wildly unpopular one here, but I feel it is important to throw it out there in an effort to truly get to the "truth" we all so desperately wish to get to.

Very best regards, and thanks for your time.
FCD

[Maxmars]

Warning! - Unpopular Opinion Ahead -

 I personally believe no discussion board can continue to exist without a political discussion section.  I believe this to be particularly true for any website which focuses any sort of conspiratorial, controversial or current events content.  Many say politics ruined other sites (such as ATS); I disagree.  In fact, I would posit the exact opposite; attempts by other websites to curtail, restrict or eliminate political discussion see a dramatic drop in participation across the entire site after which they languish in the sun, wither and drift off into irrelevancy.  The facts are, politics occupy almost every single element of the news cycle today, and better than 90% of all the conspiratorial / controversial subjects of our time boil down to political in nature.  Squashing this type of discussion and content only reduces overall contribution on a site such as this.

Case in point; there are a total of 6,722 posts (total, all forums) here on DI since its inception, compared to 22,539 posts in just the last 7 calendar days on ATS (104,841 posts in the past 30 days).  Granted DI is relatively new compared to ATS, but the lion's share of active ATS members (key being 'active') are members here on DI.  So, why the difference?  Well, for one thing, politics often draws participants in, and they then engage on (10) other non-politics subjects while there.  Exclude/prohibit politics, and many of those same individuals do not engage at all.

The other thing I think some are missing is the fact that other websites (ATS is only one example) didn't suddenly shift their focus to political activism, the world outside did.  Between the MSM, social media and numerous other factors, the new paradigm is politics.  Bottom line - politics is what people are talking about, regardless of any website focus.  Failure to realize this is conscious failure to accept what is going on outside one's window.  Politics IS the new conspiracy, and more importantly than ever; politics is the one area where seeking the "truth" and "denial of ignorance" is paramount to survival.  Refusing to recognize this is burying one's head in the sand.  All due respect to members who are interested in paranormal studies, UFO's and other supernatural phenomenon, these are indeed interesting subject areas, but in today's age these same topics alone are not sufficient to sustain a discussion forum today.

One only needs to look at the social media website 'reddit' to see the staggering proportion of political discussions in comparison to all other topics added together.  Yes, policy makers and site creators can say...'well, we just don't want that here!'...and this is fine, but realize by saying this that you turn away large segments of your potential content providers and audience by doing so.  If people are content living in this bubble, then this is fine also, but just know there is a very good probability that is all it will ever be, a bubble.

Again, I'm sure this opinion and editorial statement is a wildly unpopular one here, but I feel it is important to throw it out there in an effort to truly get to the "truth" we all so desperately wish to get to.

Very best regards, and thanks for your time.
FCD

I wouldn't presume that your opinion is unpopular.  In fact, I think it is well-received (at least in my case.)  

But that doesn't mean I necessarily agree, in the strictest sense.

I think we see the same problem but approach it quite differently.  Once again, my opinion.

I absolutely concur that political thought is central to nearly any conspiratorial discourse.  And nearly all examinations of events that lend themselves to discussion include, by necessity, that angle of analysis.  I also concur that Denying Ignorance and truth seeking is a requirement for survival.

But I disagree with you saliently on several things I understand from your comments. For example "Many say politics ruined other sites (such as ATS)..."  Yes, many have said that... (although I maintain that what "ruined" many discussion boards isn't "politics" but political activism and political theatrics.)  The issue for me is the commonly held notion that "talking about politics means talking about politicians and their frequently inane utterances. 

Politics existed long before "political celebrity" became a commodity in marketing.  It was placed into the dialogue by media, and reinforced by "political celebrity" talking-heads...  Who constantly use characterized politician behavior as a "symbol" of politics.

Most people never consider the actual politics, but focus on the clown-show, the theater foisted and produced by politically-inclined media producers... wannabes, who 'feel' their way through engagement by polls, and utterances provided by other entities in the service of political celebrity and theater.  This is where virtue signaling and grandstanding take their most prominent roles... it's mostly theater.

In regards to the discussions here as opposed to the long-standing ATS, it might also be a reflection of generational differences between users, some of whom are not relying on internet activity to form their sense of "identity."  I have noticed that the virtually useless banter around memery and sloganeering only appears where people want to "join the show" not actually say anything towards the goal of constructive discussion.  But that is part and parcel of activism... a posture which is more about "look at me" (as opposed to "look at the issue.")  But then, what I want is not relevant to "monetization" or "opinion-crafting marketing via ego-feeding."

As negative as it may appear otherwise, I think there is nothing wrong with activism as a means to express support of an ideal...  but nowadays activism is a thespian thing... not about ideals... it's just about 'making noise and being paid attention to.'  It's a 'fan' activity... "Rah rah rah."

I have no grudges against the likes of Reddit, or whatever else is out there.  They are "conversational grounds" tilled for monetization and data gathering... as such, they are what they are.   But frankly, I have found very little actual "content" there, and among those things that can be counted as content, I find most of what it evokes doesn't really add up to meaningful, or enlightening discourse... of course, there is the occasional exception... as long as it evokes "hits" (i.e. makes money.)

Personally, I have no use for the "show" when evaluating policies.  But that's just me, and I know that my opinion is often poorly received... but that may be because the answer to it is simply "I disagree" (which is fair) and not a string of media produced memes and clown-show theater.

In closing, "We don't want that here." is often insufficiently defined... I know what I want to avoid... useless discussions about politicians and political celebrities... What I DO want is discussions about the politics itself:  Issues, policies, challenges, misfires, bad and good premises, real life and people... ideas to makes things understood, clearer.

[Blaine91555]

Warning! - Unpopular Opinion Ahead -

 I personally believe no discussion board can continue to exist without a political discussion section. 

I personally believe you are wrong. It's just a matter of not caring what size the board is and not pandering to the political trolls that infest the Webverse. Politics can be discussed civilly and those who are just posting to spread hate can be removed easily.

DI is a breath of fresh air and I think it's the exact right time for it to be born. The audience who does not want political mud throwing is just as large, if not  larger than the other side.