California wildfires

[Lynyrd Skynyrd]

Keep in the mind that brush hadn't been cleared, the reservoirs were not filled, and hydrant testing was cancelled about two weeks ago. The LA fire hydrants were dry, but Pasadena hydrants did NOT fail. Don't pretend that the LA city government is competent.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

Keep in the mind that brush hadn't been cleared, the reservoirs were not filled, and hydrant testing was cancelled about two weeks ago. Don't pretend that the LA city government is competent.

LA and competence aren't really used together that much.

But those are still all false dilemmas. No amount of reservoir water, capacity, or ability to use any of that changes this outcome. Magical thinking might make it appear so, but.

Brush cleared?

Any volunteers? It's not like they can take vehicles through these canyons and up these hillsides. I think people also don't realize what "brush clearing" entails, or even what the San Gabriel Foothills look like. Or any mountain in Southern California.



[Image: Hills looking down on Altadena.]

Where Trees are evidence of undisturbed human habitation.

So strip the entire mountainside bare because it's ALL dead kindling until the rain hits.

It's like people have a conception of a forest fire, with dry growth under trees that can be easily cleared if "we just listened to Trump!" And because people don't live here, they don't know any better.

The entire San Gabriel foothills would need to be totally cleared. It's all brush. Tumbleweeds and fast growing and dying plants. All of the mountain slopes would need to be cleared.

Thats a ridicluous hindsight criticism and statement. This is how nature clears it. Sometimes neighborhoods get in the way. There's no clearing Southern California hillside brush for fire prevention. Last wet season was between 16 to 28 inches in most of Southern California. Hasn't really rained since the last one ended. La Nina cycle. It's dry made drier.

It's a bunch of ridiculous criticisms devoid of reality. No city does any better or worse than The LAFD, Glendale FD, Pasadena FD, and actually help from every available department across southern California and beyond.

No water system has the capacity for the demand these fires created. Period.

While you can rip LA government for almost anything, it wasn't just them, it was everyone, and we were all lessers to the Santa Ana driven fires on this one, no matter how prepared, no matter which city sent resources.

[Lynyrd Skynyrd]

That's all nonsense. Brush clearing is a basic tenet of fire control. It was not done. The neighboring fire district, Pasadena, had continuing water pressure to their hydrants throughout the fire.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

That's all nonsense. Brush clearing is a basic tenet of fire control. It was not done. The neighboring fire district, Pasadena, had continuing water pressure to their hydrants throughout the fire.

Hmmm... I watched it live. All water ran out North of Woodbury in Altadena.

Both fires drained the systems in their area. They were beyond fighting ability for anyone.

And just stop with the brush clearing thing Trump blathered about. I showed you what the burn area looks like. Trees only exist if they are planted. Weeds grow and die annually. It's the cycle of our climate. Rain for 4 months. Dry out for 8 months.

It could be basic tenets, but clearing what burns entails clearing everything wild growing. Everything. Everything dies by September unless it's watered. Like all the green trees in that picture.

Yes, I should, as a Coastal California resident, demand we spend ridiculous money and resources clearing the brush off every hillside, in case one of them catches fire?

Brush clearing is one hell of a project. And while it's a basic tenet of forest management, until you see a Southern California hillside in Novermber, you cant realize the ridiculous nature of that statement. Like clearing Kentucky of all the bluegrass....if it didn't rain for 8 months and died.

[Lynyrd Skynyrd]

Hmmm... I watched it live. All water ran out North of Woodbury in Altadena.

Both fires drained the systems in their area. They were beyond fighting ability for anyone.

And just stop with the brush clearing thing Trump blathered about. I showed you what the burn area looks like. Trees only exist if they are planted. Weeds grow and die annually. It's the cycle of our climate. Rain for 4 months. Dry out for 8 months.

It could be basic tenets, but clearing what burns entails clearing everything wild growing. Everything. Everything dies by September unless it's watered. Like all the green trees in that picture.

Yes, I should, as a Coastal California resident, demand we spend ridiculous money and resources clearing the brush off every hillside, in case one of them catches fire?

Brush clearing is one hell of a project. And while it's a basic tenet of forest management, until you see a California hillside in Novermber, you cant realize the ridiculous nature of that statement. Like clearing Kentucky of all the bluegrass....if it didn't rain for 8 months and died.

"One big reason I’ve always chosen to live in Pasadena is because we have our own water basin, separate health ordinances and electrical grids. 

We have water in our fire hydrants thanks to the Raymond Basin."

https://twitter.com/crypto_mami_/status/...4225g&s=19

I have lived in California for over 50 years, and  regularly clear brush around my house, including on the county road right of way. The harder it is to clear, probably means that it is even more important to do. Some counties use inmates to do this work.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

"One big reason I’ve always chosen to live in Pasadena is because we have our own water basin, separate health ordinances and electrical grids. 

We have water in our fire hydrants thanks to the Raymond Basin."

https://twitter.com/crypto_mami_/status/...4225g&s=19

I have lived in California for over 50 years, and  regularly clear brush around my house, including on the county road right of way. The harder it is to clear, probably means that it is even more important to do. Some counties use inmates to do this work.

Yeah and no. 50 foot areas are protecting you only to an extent. A wind event fire is futile. These fires can jump 9000 feet downwind from embers. That's a beast basic land management can't prevent against.

You can clear the barrier around your property, and along the public roads, but it's just not feasible to clear the hillsides. There's just so many treeless dead weed covered hillsides to do it ever.

This isn't the smoking gun for Idiot LA County policy for once. You can blame crime on liberal policies all day, but I'm not seeing a link to idiot democrats as much as grasping for a reason to blame them.

LA County FD gets its Altadena water from the Raymond Basin too. Think the system is interconnected with Pasadena. They are definitely from that same primary source.

It's just not fair on this one. For once the democrats didn't do it. Choosing to live in a wind tunnel canyon maybe, But they made it 138 years.

In Palisades LAFDs politics did not lead to there only being 3 tanks present when there were never any plans for unnecessary supply being added in any budget. Or for an upgrade to the existing capacity of the system. We waste money, but not that much..

There is no government/planning connection to the futility of their efforts or any budgeting issues in my mind.

I feel it's an unnecessary politicizing that I had hoped would go away once Trump won. But instead it hasn't faded, even with carte blanche approaching, and I don't like why this has become another opportunity to polarize everyone.

We don't need this polarization. It's like there's a collective effort to try to convince any Southern Califonian they can to blame their elected democrats officials and think it should have been prevented.

It's like, Jeez media, let us count our dead first, and then you'll have the ear of many of the bereaved if you wish capitalize upon their tragedy and instill a like-minded hatred of the democrat policy.

It is unsettling how much blood lust there is for everything bashing California policy. And while the delicate balance of democracy needs both bashing each-other to not become fascism, I had hoped this generational tragedy would take a vitriol lap off.

I'm just compelled to try to stop the politics on this one. Even though I just make it worse.

[quintessentone]

Canada sends water bombers and firefighters to assist.

https://nowtoronto.com/news/canada-sends...wildfires/

Thursday morning, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau posted a video of a Canadian aircraft flying in the Los Angeles area above the raging fires and spraying water on them in an effort to help slow the spread of the deadly blaze. 
He captioned the post, “Neighbours helping neighbours.”

[Lynyrd Skynyrd]

Both The Palisades Village Mall and Bay Club used private firefighters and survived the fire storm.

https://www.breitbart.com/environment/20...ades-fire/

[Lynyrd Skynyrd]

A large reservoir in Pacific Palisades that is part of the Los Angeles water supply system was out of use when a ferocious wildfire destroyed thousands of homes and other structures nearby.
Officials told The Times that the Santa Ynez Reservoir had been closed for repairs to its cover, leaving a 117 million gallon water storage complex empty in the heart of the Palisades.
The revelation comes among growing questions about why firefighters ran out of water while battling the blaze. Numerous fire hydrants in higher-elevation streets of the Palisades went dry, leaving firefighters struggling with low water pressure as they combated the flames.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story...as-offline

[quintessentone]

This is what city officials have to say about that specific reservoir:

Officials have said that the storage tanks in the Pacific Palisades area, each holding about 1 million gallons, were filled before the fire but then depleted as so many firefighters tapped into the system at once. The system struggled to refill the tanks in part because so much water was being pulled from the main water line before it could get to the pumps that feed the higher tanks.
 
Mr. Adams said an operational reservoir would have been helpful initially to more fully feed the water system in the area. But he also said it appeared that that reservoir and the tanks would have eventually been drained in a fire that was consuming so many homes at once. Municipal water systems are generally designed to sustain water loads for much smaller fires than what consumed Pacific Palisades.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/10/us/wi...rtage.html

“We pushed the system to the extreme,” LADWP CEO Janisse Quiñones said in a news conference. “Four times the normal demand was seen for 15 hours straight, which lowered our water pressure.”
 
According to LADWP, the tanks’ water supply needed to be replenished in order to provide enough pressure for the water to flow through fire hydrants uphill. But officials said as firefighters drew more and more water from the trunk line, or main supply, they used water that would have refilled the tanks, eventually depleting them.
 
That decreased the water pressure, which is needed for fire hydrants to work in higher elevations.
“I want to make sure that you understand there's water on the trunk line, it just cannot get up the hill because we cannot fill the tanks fast enough,” Quiñones said.

https://laist.com/news/climate-environme...ts-run-dry

If these types of large raging fires are to become the norm there, then, of course, fire management/science remedial measures need to be implemented. Where's the money coming from for all of that?