Jeju Air 737 crash South Korea

[Zaphod58]

I too offer condolences for the families that are grieving over this horrifying tragic crash.

I am just reading that this type of aircraft does still carry a good amount of fuel at the time of landing as well, because of it's longer design and so that the tail will not drag on the runway, the landing speed needs to be at a higher speed.

I am also reading where Boeing's manufacturing problems have been reported as them using faulty parts and rudder jamming issues due to, get this, " seals at supplier Collins Aerospace were installed backwards, allowing water to enter and freeze at high altitudes, inhibiting rudder movement.
However this is far from the only problem with rudder controls on the Max".

Additionally, I am also reading where Boeing has not yet addressed these manufacturing problems, to this date!

I advocate for all aircraft manufacturers to design planes whereby passengers and crew are somehow protected from the forces of a crash and fire, something akin to an airbag, but I'm not an engineer, I am a customer that thinks they should do much better to protect lives.

https://technokontrol.com/en/products/ai...rcraft.php

The bird strike cause is being disputed.
 

Boeing has taken steps to correct manufacturing issues, but Collins isn’t Boeing. A manufacturer isn’t going to get parts from a supplier, then tear them apart to make sure they’re built right.

As for disputing it, apparently these people know better than a passenger, flight attendant, pilot, and video showing engine problems consistent with a bird strike.

As for that quote, they don’t foam runways any more. That would be worse if they did. The fire trucks stage at both ends of the runway, and at the middle. They touched down long because they had a higher approach speed so they floated. The wall is there to keep aircraft from hitting things beyond the runway like the ILS antenna, or buildings off the airport.

[quintessentone]

That's another issue, Zaphod, why aren't there remedial measures in place for bird strikes?

As for the installing seals on backwards, that is just another example of the alarming lack of safety supervision within this industry.

[Zaphod58]

That's another issue, Zaphod, why aren't there remedial measures in place for bird strikes?

As for the installing seals on backwards, that is just another example of the alarming lack of safety supervision within this industry.

What remedial measures should there be? All airports have a bird control plan to keep birds away from the runway. They monitor for birds constantly, and have temporarily stopped operations because of bird activity at times. Bird strikes are actually fairly rare any more compared to twenty years ago.

[quintessentone]

What remedial measures should there be? All airports have a bird control plan to keep birds away from the runway. They monitor for birds constantly, and have temporarily stopped operations because of bird activity at times. Bird strikes are actually fairly rare any more compared to twenty years ago.

It is being argued that even one bird strike can bring down a plane, so is that not a good enough reason to implement remedial and/or preventative measures into the design/manufacturing process? In this case, they are speculating/arguing the bird strike may have jammed up the landing gear.

Of course, we are all just speculating at this point.

[Zaphod58]

It is being argued that even one bird strike can bring down a plane, so is that not a good enough reason to implement remedial and/or preventative measures into the design/manufacturing process? In this case, they are speculating/arguing the bird strike may have jammed up the landing gear.

Of course, we are all just speculating at this point.

Bird strikes causing that much damage are even rarer than bird strikes happening at all. Without knowing a lot more there’s no way to know what happened. The 737-800, like almost all aircraft, has a manual extension system for the gear and flaps. Why they weren’t used is something that will have to wait for the investigation. As will the amount of damage caused by the bird strike.

[quintessentone]

Aviation expert weighs in about this crash, he says if not for the obstruction at the end of the runway everyone would still be alive.



Why was that obstruction there - to protect something beyond the runway? What standards were followed in South Korea to allow obstructions at the end of a runway?

A pilot who flew that actual plane weighs in and says that the plane would have missed houses etc. and explains where the plane would have stopped if the wall was not there - at 12:55 mark on the video.

[KKLoco]

I saw this earlier. According to this expert, those antennas are supposed to be built to collapse, in case a plane overshoots the runway. He states that there is no reason for the thick reinforced concrete wall that supports them at this airport. 

He also stated that the pilot that performed the belly landing did really well. The only reason people died was because of the unnecessary huge wall. Doesn’t sound like anything nefarious. Just really poor planning by whoever designed it that way.

I had originally thought that the plane veered off the runway to the right, to hit the wall. But nope, it was right on track. Unfortunately, morons put a cement wall 200 meters passed the runway ending….

[Zaphod58]

ILS signals need to be elevated if there's terrain potentially blocking signals from it. At DFW the ILS antenna is raised at the airport. The airport here had a hill 6 miles away, and mountains nine miles away. They can't put the ILS off site, and it needs to be reasonably lined up with the runway. With the terrain, and area around the airport, when they built the facility the decision was made to put the ILS antenna off one end of the runway. The normal approach path would have had them come in over the berm, and touch down clear of it. For whatever reason, the crew made the decision to land opposite direction. They still might have been okay, but the higher speed caused them to float, and they didn't touch down until approximately 4000 feet down the runway based on estimates.

As for "if they landed the other way everyone would be alive", there's no way to know that. They might have gone off the other end, and engine dig in, the airplane flip and catch fire, or any number of other things. You can speculate all you want about what might have been, but there's no way to know with an accident like this. Once you're off the runway and onto soft ground, all bets are off. Especially with everything hanging down that can dig into the ground.

[quintessentone]

I saw this earlier. According to this expert, those antennas are supposed to be built to collapse, in case a plane overshoots the runway. He states that there is no reason for the thick reinforced concrete wall that supports them at this airport. 

He also stated that the pilot that performed the belly landing did really well. The only reason people died was because of the unnecessary huge wall. Doesn’t sound like anything nefarious. Just really poor planning by whoever designed it that way.

I had originally thought that the plane veered off the runway to the right, to hit the wall. But nope, it was right on track. Unfortunately, morons put a cement wall 200 meters passed the runway ending….

It seems some airports have mud pits at the end of runways to slow planes.

[Zaphod58]

It seems some airports have mud pits at the end of runways to slow planes.

EMAS is becoming more common, but slowly. Not sure it would have helped here though as fast as they were going when they left the end of the runway.