WHOA!!! Did you see that????

[FlyingClayDisk]

Well, DTOM answered my question in your thread. It’s not possible for a mod to edit without it showing whomever edited it in the ‘edited by:’ section.

Which means we have three possibilities:

1. Some unknown person has administrative access, to alter anything they want on the back end. We know this is possible, due to everything Darko did last year.

2. A hacker has gained control of the back end. And for some reason are  spending their time trying to alter the narrative of the site.

3. Another glitch in the matrix. Things are so screwed up on the back end, that ATS cannot differentiate between users.

I do not have an opinion yet. Interesting to see how this plays out.

ETA: Yes, I knew you were referring to me in that thread. I don’t think you were misunderstanding me. You know what’s going on. There are no password resets, or newly created accounts. So yes, don’t do a password reset, unless you’re done with the place.

Definitely weird and pretty troubling, no doubt.

Understood.  Yeah, we're on the same page.  Thanks!

[VulcanWerks]

Stay off of ATS.

Period.

[KKLoco]

Stay off of ATS.

Period.

Yeah, I’m almost wondering if i should ask a mod to ban my account. Curious if that would eliminate my email and any other contact info.

[FlyingClayDisk]

Yeah, I’m almost wondering if i should ask a mod to ban my account. Curious if that would eliminate my email and any other contact info.

You'll probably want to check your PM's (here)...soon.

[Maxmars]

I had recently come of the opinion that I was going to avoid talking about ATS.  The reasons are a bit complicated, but in essence, I cannot opine without risking the 'image' of ATS to my own strictly personal feelings. Please bear that in mind, out of respect to ATS and those still working hard to keep it from falling apart.

FCD's experience is not unique.  (As a matter of fact, I have felt more than once or twice, certain that what was on the screen was not what I originally stated.  Granted, I considered that any sinister manipulation of my words would be unlikely... after all, what's changing one post actually going to achieve?  And also granted, that my single opinion is not a defining factor of ATS as a whole.  But I won't dismiss the perception... especially now...)

I may never speak so bluntly about ATS again, so let me assure you that regardless of "interface" programming, regardless of the diligence and dedication of a loyal moderator core, regardless of all 'honest' intentions... there are no guarantees that this kind of thing doesn't happen everywhere... this is a 'digital' environment, which means anything can be spoofed by someone with access.

I had a certain reserved pride in ATS because I felt I was part of a group of moderators who didn't see any value in 'screwing around' with members' statements.  None of them - in my estimation - were inclined to misrepresent anyone or anything as offered to the dialogue.

However, I am no longer part of that site.  And I have many friends who still 'live' there... many of them are moderators, who I am inclined to respect.  I can't imagine any of them saying... "let me do this" and just editing someone else's thoughts and statements for ANY reason.  That, at least in part, leads me towards concluding that it was done by an outsider, an abusive element not of the ATS community (or at least thinking themselves 'above' the community in general.)

ATS is a beloved predecessor to Deny Ignorance, so we will always be inclined to at least monitor the goings on there...  But I recommend dispassion, a clinical detachment, as it were, because things are changing in a way which the community has zero control over (a common peril of 'commerce' and 'marketing.')

I know that some of the appeal of ATS was in it's relatively huge membership and the artful application of well-conceived terms and conditions which was respected and honored by most every member.  But now, "new" community members will be filtered in, some real, some artificial, some true seekers, and some 'sellers' of answers... some builders of dialogue, and others only "users" of data. 

The fence is down, the perimeter no longer secure, and the moderators are hobbled and suppressed by decisions from which they have been disempowered.  The reasons for this are irrelevant... it has happened.

In time, our 'Deny Ignorance' will grow and mature, and a simplistic view would offer that the ATS community (which has more to do with "community" than ATS) will simply migrate elsewhere... I am hoping they come here.  I am trying to help provide that what the community needs, it can get that here... there needn't be any contorting or writhing in discomfort...  We are already here... waiting.

[FlyingClayDisk]

I had recently come of the opinion that I was going to avoid talking about ATS.  The reasons are a bit complicated, but in essence, I cannot opine without risking the 'image' of ATS to my own strictly personal feelings. Please bear that in mind, out of respect to ATS and those still working hard to keep it from falling apart.

FCD's experience is not unique.  (As a matter of fact, I have felt more than once or twice, certain that what was on the screen was not what I originally stated.  Granted, I considered that any sinister manipulation of my words would be unlikely... after all, what's changing one post actually going to achieve?  And also granted, that my single opinion is not a defining factor of ATS as a whole.  But I won't dismiss the perception... especially now...)

I may never speak so bluntly about ATS again, so let me assure you that regardless of "interface" programming, regardless of the diligence and dedication of a loyal moderator core, regardless of all 'honest' intentions... there are no guarantees that this kind of thing doesn't happen everywhere... this is a 'digital' environment, which means anything can be spoofed by someone with access.

I had a certain reserved pride in ATS because I felt I was part of a group of moderators who didn't see any value in 'screwing around' with members' statements.  None of them - in my estimation - were inclined to misrepresent anyone or anything as offered to the dialogue.

However, I am no longer part of that site.  And I have many friends who still 'live' there... many of them are moderators, who I am inclined to respect.  I can't imagine any of them saying... "let me do this" and just editing someone else's thoughts and statements for ANY reason.  That, at least in part, leads me towards concluding that it was done by an outsider, an abusive element not of the ATS community (or at least thinking themselves 'above' the community in general.)

ATS is a beloved predecessor to Deny Ignorance, so we will always be inclined to at least monitor the goings on there...  But I recommend dispassion, a clinical detachment, as it were, because things are changing in a way which the community has zero control over (a common peril of 'commerce' and 'marketing.')

I know that some of the appeal of ATS was in it's relatively huge membership and the artful application of well-conceived terms and conditions which was respected and honored by most every member.  But now, "new" community members will be filtered in, some real, some artificial, some true seekers, and some 'sellers' of answers... some builders of dialogue, and others only "users" of data. 

The fence is down, the perimeter no longer secure, and the moderators are hobbled and suppressed by decisions from which they have been disempowered.  The reasons for this are irrelevant... it has happened.

In time, our 'Deny Ignorance' will grow and mature, and a simplistic view would offer that the ATS community (which has more to do with "community" than ATS) will simply migrate elsewhere... I am hoping they come here.  I am trying to help provide that what the community needs, it can get that here... there needn't be any contorting or writhing in discomfort...  We are already here... waiting.

Max,  Thanks for your reply.  I have an important update which I feel is important to pass along to the community here regarding this event.

I received a DM from a member of ATS who explained that the edited text in my post was in fact their reply to me.  Their reply had somehow been added INTO my post.  This was not the member's intention; their intention was to 'reply' to me in the normal fashion (per their explanation).  I have no reason to doubt this person at this point.  As I noted, it appeared the added text looked like a 'reply' to my post.  This is why it was obvious the text wasn't my own.  I didn't have a problem with the reply's content (other than it being a different viewpoint from mine, which is perfectly fine); it just wasn't my words.  And that was my issue more than anything.

These should have been completely separate fields in the database, but for some reason they got merged.  Not having the DB to examine, I have no way of doing any further forensics on what happened beyond this explanation (which seems at least plausible).

I wanted to send this explanation out before this discussion proceeds further.

Lastly, and likely most importantly...yes, Deny Ignorance is very much shaping up to be "the" saving grace to the once great ATS.  I want to extend my most heartfelt thanks and congratulations to the creators here for creating such a valuable and well put together site!  Thanks!!

[Maxmars]

Lastly, and likely most importantly...yes, Deny Ignorance is very much shaping up to be "the" saving grace to the once great ATS.  I want to extend my most heartfelt thanks and congratulations to the creators here for creating such a valuable and well put together site!  Thanks!!

As do I.  Many thanks and much appreciation too.

During my self-pity phase (short-lived though it was) I succumbed to the fear that the ATS community wanted no more to do with me...  I find that feeling might have been unwarranted and more my own imagining than real.

Meanwhile... stay tuned for the future... We can make it brighter, if we try.

[Nerb]

I received a DM from a member of ATS who explained that the edited text in my post was in fact their reply to me.  Their reply had somehow been added INTO my post.

I was wondering if that's what had happened and it's good you confirm it here and better that you were contacted by the poster who's words they actually were to do so.

Regardless of what happened to you and your post, I still have a feeling that the events over the last few years and in particular the sale of the site and some of the "tinkering" done since then leads me to believe there may be some back doors open to those who are perhaps bitter and resentful for things that have happened.

Let's just flow calmly in this little boat that has a great captain and great crew and appreciate that we are priviliged to be aboard as it sets sail into the great wide yonder.

Glad you got your revelation and as time passes, so will any negative vibes associated I'm sure.

Peace to you now.....

[KKLoco]

To Nerb,

”Regardless of what happened to you and your post, I still have a feeling that the events over the last few years and in particular the sale of the site and some of the "tinkering" done since then leads me to believe there may be some back doors open to those who are perhaps bitter and resentful for things that have happened.”

Sorry to reply like this. I don’t know how to take snippets to quote yet. 

DISCLAIMER: As previously mentioned, I have never posted in any Israel or Hamas thread, since this started in October. So I have no stake in this game.

OKAY, this was my feeling as well. THEN, this just popped into my Brain — has everyone seen the threads about how somehow pro Hamas / Palestine posts have been receiving 10 stars or more, within literally minutes of posting? There’s a lot of hubbub about it. What happened to FCD, was changing his stance to contradict himself, and end it with being pro Hamas / Palestine. I find it too coincidental that the issues, mostly revolve around that particular topic.

Im no IT guy. I do have some knowledge, as I have a website. From my understanding (and I could be wrong), is it even possible to blend those two separate databases into one? This isn’t jiving with me. Seems possibly deliberate. It’s one thing to create an entirely new post when hitting the edit icon (this happened to me). It’s a completely different ballgame when a user can literally blend their statements into another users post. Talk about COMPROMISED!

I hope we can get some coders in here so we can get some answers on this.

[DontTreadOnMe]

Closed pending more information and staff discussion on DI.
Assume ATS is less than secure.
And everyday is one day closer to the end.

WE HAVE NO ACCESS TO THE BACKEND. 
WE HAVE NO ACCESS TO THE DATABASE.

I realize it is an important topic, but those of us who know ATS is not secure will probably never convince those who think all is mostly well....