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+--- Thread: Dead or on the lamb? (/Thread-Dead-or-on-the-lamb)
RE: Dead or on the lamb? - l0st - 09-04-2024
(09-04-2024, 06:32 PM)ArMaP Wrote: No, those 9 minutes are part of the 16 minutes (according to the AIS system).
I found a site (in Italian) that has the timeline.
Gli ultimi 16 minuti del Bayesian, la mappa del naufragio
The energy used is different, a loose chair does not keep the movement before hitting because it doesn't have enough energy, when hitting someone on purpose with something (even a chair), the energy used is bigger and the movement of the chair is done in a way to make it go through the head.
I'm sure an experienced doctor would know the difference.
I just can't imagine a ship that was "violently shaking" for 9 minutes not waking up the passengers or crew. I can't imagine a ship being tossed on its side not waking up the passengers or crew. I can't image a ship being tossed on its side while sleeping not also throwing the passenger somewhere in the cabin. Its not like people go to sleep like they're strapped in to a NASCAR racing seat (6 point harness). Most people wake up if you shake them a little bit. Not to mention, if there were 100 MPH winds as claimed (do they even use MPH in Italy?) no doubt the noise from the wind and sea outside would be absolutely HOWLING and every minor orifice whistling and screeching.
I also question the timeline on the power outage. Did the power go out at all until the ship actually submerged? On the video, if you really pay attention, it looks like the lights on the mast are still blinking, even when the boat goes on its side. Its very hard to see, but try to track the blinking light near the top as the boat goes down in like the last minute of the video and you can track the light until it basically goes under water.
The emergency system in question is triggered by water intrusion. So, the boats already sinking by the time it goes off at 4:06am. There were no mayday calls beforehand? The system could communicate with a satellite in outer space but nobody could pick up a VHF handset on the bridge and make a distress call? It doesn't even look like they were that far out in the water.
We have confirmation one of the lifeboats deployed. What happened to the others? Was the bridge left unattended?
I'm not trying to be a dick with all the questioning but seriously, the story is so full of holes its absolutely unbelievable to anyone who knows a few things about boats, and I'm no expert, but I've lived around water for significant portions of my life and have been on boats and ships many times. In fact, I was just on a yacht again this past weekend for a dinner cruise.
Edit to add:
Incidentally, we also had a freak storm roll in and headed back to the dock a bit early. Amazingly, no capsizing or dead passengers.
RE: Dead or on the lamb? - guyfriday - 09-05-2024
(09-04-2024, 06:32 PM)ArMaP Wrote: The energy used is different, a loose chair does not keep the movement before hitting because it doesn't have enough energy, when hitting someone on purpose with something (even a chair), the energy used is bigger and the movement of the chair is done in a way to make it go through the head.
I'm sure an experienced doctor would know the difference.
That is exactly my point. Even a small stool getting lobbed at a person's head will do a lot more damage than a quick blow will. Great way to hide a murder. Though the point that was made was that the people all seemingly died from drowning and nothing else (as of yet) just doesn't sound likely.
I think that Timeline that was given out is either incomplete, incorrect, or just mud in the water. Some of the data, such as what water event hit the boat, seems to have changed.
Now I want to point out that I'm not saying that this is sloppy work on the investigators part, but I think we're still not going to get the whole story here. I wonder if something new in the water will be used to change people's attention soon.
RE: Dead or on the lamb? - ArMaP - 09-05-2024
(09-05-2024, 01:11 AM)guyfriday Wrote: Some of the data, such as what water event hit the boat, seems to have changed.
If I'm not mistaken that changed on the second day, it's not a new change.
RE: Dead or on the lamb? - l0st - 09-05-2024
(09-05-2024, 01:11 AM)guyfriday Wrote: That is exactly my point. Even a small stool getting lobbed at a person's head will do a lot more damage than a quick blow will. Great way to hide a murder. Though the point that was made was that the people all seemingly died from drowning and nothing else (as of yet) just doesn't sound likely.
I think that Timeline that was given out is either incomplete, incorrect, or just mud in the water. Some of the data, such as what water event hit the boat, seems to have changed.
Now I want to point out that I'm not saying that this is sloppy work on the investigators part, but I think we're still not going to get the whole story here. I wonder if something new in the water will be used to change people's attention soon.
The Italians aren't exactly known for their crack investigation teams. When I sold stuff overseas, I had blacklisted Italy because 9x out of 10 the packages would disappear and Italian police are absolutely useless.
RE: Dead or on the lamb? - FlyingClayDisk - 09-05-2024
(09-05-2024, 07:14 PM)l0st Wrote: The Italians aren't exactly known for their crack investigation teams. When I sold stuff overseas, I had blacklisted Italy because 9x out of 10 the packages would disappear and Italian police are absolutely useless.
Good grief! If you think Italy is bad, you should try SE Asia. My Mom sent me a box of cookies one time and not only were they opened, but half of them were eaten, and there was even a half eaten cookie left in the box! Every single package I got over there was pilfered, the good stuff taken out, and stuff the dummies didn't understand was left in. Most corrupt customs people on planet earth!
RE: Dead or on the lamb? - l0st - 09-05-2024
(09-05-2024, 09:04 PM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: Good grief! If you think Italy is bad, you should try SE Asia. My Mom sent me a box of cookies one time and not only were they opened, but half of them were eaten, and there was even a half eaten cookie left in the box! Every single package I got over there was pilfered, the good stuff taken out, and stuff the dummies didn't understand was left in. Most corrupt customs people on planet earth!
Interesting. I used to get orders from Malaysia once in a while that were shipped to a forwarder. Never ran into any issues although I probably was selling those gadgets they didn't know what they were haha. There were a few other countries on my list with issues as well. Brazil comes to mind, except what they will do is literally ask for a bribe to pass the package on.
RE: Dead or on the lamb? - FlyingClayDisk - 09-06-2024
(09-05-2024, 09:38 PM)l0st Wrote: Interesting. I used to get orders from Malaysia once in a while that were shipped to a forwarder. Never ran into any issues although I probably was selling those gadgets they didn't know what they were haha. There were a few other countries on my list with issues as well. Brazil comes to mind, except what they will do is literally ask for a bribe to pass the package on.
HA! It was in Malaysia where this used to happen all the time. I lived there for several years working. My GF (now wife) would send me these really nice care packages with cookies and stuff, and they'd always be half eaten (if I got any at all). Bastages!
RE: Dead or on the lamb? - ArMaP - 09-06-2024
I saw today an article saying most people had a "dry drowning", meaning they died from lack of oxygen in the air, which makes them suppose they were gathered in a "air bubble" inside the ship, so when they exhausted all oxygen they died.
RE: Dead or on the lamb? - FlyingClayDisk - 09-06-2024
(09-06-2024, 06:08 PM)ArMaP Wrote: I saw today an article saying most people had a "dry drowning", meaning they died from lack of oxygen in the air, which makes them suppose they were gathered in a "air bubble" inside the ship, so when they exhausted all oxygen they died.
it's also known as "Asphyxiation". In other words...lack of oxygen leading to death. "DRY DROWNING" is some fantasy term come up with by Italian investigators.
This whole thing is nonsense. Perhaps the Italian officials wanted this guy to pay his ill-gotten money back to HP...dunno.
BUT...somebody, or somebody(s), wanted these people DEAD.
No Question About It!!!
P.S. - Sad about the young daughter, but when you play with the Devil...sometimes you lose. Everything.
RE: Dead or on the lamb? - l0st - 09-06-2024
(09-06-2024, 06:08 PM)ArMaP Wrote: I saw today an article saying most people had a "dry drowning", meaning they died from lack of oxygen in the air, which makes them suppose they were gathered in a "air bubble" inside the ship, so when they exhausted all oxygen they died.
Hmmm. "Dry drowning" that's a new one for me. We used to call that "suffocating to death due to lack of oxygen".
So, now there was an air bubble in the ship long enough to cause the breathers to die of CO2 poisoning, but apparently not large enough to keep the ship afloat.
The series of miracles here are astounding:
- Ship goes out into water knowing large storms are coming, but does nothing to secure hatches, furniture or passengers.
- Italian Coast Guard radios ship, but nobody answers.
- Furniture toppled all over the ship, preventing passengers from exiting cabins, but managed not to hit or injure a single person.
- Ship allegedly capsizes but not a single person was thrown out of bed or injured in this process.
- Everyone was a asleep, but they all found an air bubble in one of 2 cabins and stayed there until running out of oxygen.
- Ship should have 7 or 8 lifeboats, but only one was deployed.
- Ship was supposedly hit by a tornado or microburst, but video shows a strong storm.
- Ship supposedly sank below water in under 1 minute, but emergency systems don't indicate water intrusion until 4:06am, all the while taking 16 minutes to sink.
- Ship allegedly loses power, but was able to contact satellite for GPS, even when under water.
- Crew had been on ship for 8 years, but could find a marine band radio to call for help, and apparently nobody was on the bridge.
- Ship sank from rear, but nobody at bridge could do anything before the bridge took on water.
- Ship had ~1000HP of thrust, but couldn't move.
- Ship had dropped anchor, but then mysteriously broke anchor and floated 1/2 mile away.
Here's what I really don't understand. If there was all this air bubble stuff, and the ship was under water... should have been plainly evident through exterior portholes.... wouldn't you try to get out at that point? I know I sure as hell wouldn't just stay comfy-cozy in my cabin air bubble waiting for my demise. I would expect to find people all over the place in various stages of escape.
