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+--- Thread: Secession Trend Up? (/Thread-Secession-Trend-Up)
RE: Secession Trend Up? - PhyloCFly - 02-18-2024
(02-17-2024, 11:34 AM)Kenzo Wrote: error
Wouldn't this lead to Balkanization? I used to be a secessionist when I lived in California. When I was young and full of spunk and vigor. Some in that state wanted to divide it into two states but me, I just wanted to pull out entirely.
Back then Texas was constantly threatening to leave, I said, ''let em go''. I had visions of that Northwest Utopia that was dreamed up by Callenbach when he wrote '' Ecotopia''. Turns out that it was at heart a real sense of things. When I moved father north I found that in spirit it was already in practice with the undeclared state called ''Jefferson State''.
Now there is a move afoot for the annexation of much of Oregon by the state of Idaho to be called Greater Idaho. It would leave the commercial hubs of Portland, Salem and Eugene to the old Oregon. I don't know how this idea is playing out other than there have been a few votes in that direction.
But as for secession, well, I don't think it's desirable. Seems to me that the history of the world is one of accession, societies growing larger and larger until they bust. We might be on that cusp, no, I think we are. The results will not be nice to live with if you ask me.
RE: Secession Trend Up? - Kenzo - 02-18-2024
(02-18-2024, 11:57 AM)PhyloCFly Wrote:
Wouldn't this lead to Balkanization? I used to be a secessionist when I lived in California. When I was young and full of spunk and vigor. Some in that state wanted to divide it into two states but me, I just wanted to pull out entirely.
Back then Texas was constantly threatening to leave, I said, ''let em go''. I had visions of that Northwest Utopia that was dreamed up by Callenbach when he wrote '' Ecotopia''. Turns out that it was at heart a real sense of things. When I moved father north I found that in spirit it was already in practice with the undeclared state called ''Jefferson State''.
Now there is a move afoot for the annexation of much of Oregon by the state of Idaho to be called Greater Idaho. It would leave the commercial hubs of Portland, Salem and Eugene to the old Oregon. I don't know how this idea is playing out other than there have been a few votes in that direction.
But as for secession, well, I don't think it's desirable. Seems to me that the history of the world is one of accession, societies growing larger and larger until they bust. We might be on that cusp, no, I think we are. The results will not be nice to live with if you ask me.
It`s bit complicated issue ( in my head ) ....or lets say that i think secession in USA would might not be a good idea , thought i am not living there , so my views are not so high value
Buuut, in countries like Russia....i would want secession right this second , but thats another country
If i have the power ( dictator ) i had all Indigenous peoples live in their own setup, own currency ....and own country with no mix to others....but that`s late now
(02-18-2024, 10:52 AM)Maxmars Wrote: In regard to the EU and the U.K.'s "Brexit," I believe there were always doubts in some circles regarding the relationship between "UK sovereignty " and "EU primacy." Interestingly, the same few generations of people who saw the birth of the "European Community" in the '70s and its maturation into the European Union actually experienced, first-hand, all those things they were warned about before they committed to the 'EU.'
The UK was the only sovereign nation that appears to have understood the math and withdrew. The idea that a nation of people should abandon the laws they developed and the courts they implemented, in favor of a 'theoretical' ideal provided by an "outside" entity whose only connection to your nation was 'geographic regionality' proved ill-advised.
But they did demonstrate what many the West thought unlikely... that the 'divorce' could be amicable... go figure.
I think it is difficult to categorize Brexit as a "secession." No nation in that loose affiliation of economic cooperation can be said to be 'subordinated' to the whole... (unless you ask the banks for whom this was all done.)
If you ask me , i think the whole EU was mistake ,as like what it has come. We only need security cooperation , and NATO was allready there to do that , so yeah....a mistake. All European countries should have stayed as were just after WW2 , except the East germany/ ex-soviet which were ruled by USSR ,occupyed .
I would like to hear what UK citizen think about post-brexit etc....
RE: Secession Trend Up? - Maxmars - 02-18-2024
(02-18-2024, 01:07 PM)Kenzo Wrote: ...
If you ask me , i think the whole EU was mistake ,as like what it has come. We only need security cooperation , and NATO was allready there to do that , so yeah....a mistake. All European countries should have stayed as were just after WW2 , except the East germany/ ex-soviet which were ruled by USSR ,occupyed .
I would like to hear what UK citizen think about post-brexit etc....
I would welcome that as well.
But I have found that - just like in the US - discussions of such matters often falls apart as soon 'political personalities" are included in the discussion. Just like here, on my side of the Atlantic, people seem fixed on the larger-than-life crafted images and 'sponsored' reporting sold to the public by media concerns and their masters. Soon the discussion devolves into leaders and their hair-brained utterances, or the hyperbolic sources they rely on.
Discourse is being diluted and skewed by people who would rather we listened to them, and not actually develop our own informed opinions.
The EU may have been a "bad idea" from our perspective, but we are not them. The failure to understand that the entire exercise was economic, that everything else was 'theater' for appearances sake was lost, and all efforts to illuminate that fact were usually dismissed as conspiratorial nonsense. Well, clearly, it's their soup... we don't have to eat it. The U.K. seems to have been sensitive to the overall arc of the union... I would wager that Germany is to follow... but I may be wrong... it largely depends on the bankers - who were, and are, the architects of all this globalist nonsense. It's a matter of exploitation, not much else seems to drive them.
Like I said before, secession is all about sovereignty. We can imagine all the benefits of it, but the weaknesses that are amplified by independence are too numerous to risk disregarding. Most people wouldn't want to endure what follows.
RE: Secession Trend Up? - Byrd - 02-18-2024
(02-17-2024, 08:37 PM)Maxmars Wrote: First off - THANK YOU...
I think that it's important to determine the specifics. And also, it bears mentioning that they are not hiding the data. So I apologize, unnecessarily maybe, to all you statistically inclined folks out there who know that the problems aren't in the math.
But perhaps more importantly, aside from the specifics, it shows that information consumerism has led to a point in public affairs where people can be manipulated, and that is only amplified by ignorance, which we must eliminate, contextually speaking. Debate has a civic purpose... its chief strength is that it can't be directly controlled without obvious tyranny. Since the information we receive seems to be in lieu of debate, the debate is 'crafted.'
You are most correct, I think, that if there were a serious-minded discussion or debate about secession, it might just educate us all. Too bad no one will join me in the debate forum.
Any time I hit something that seems "odd" (those seemed like BIG over the top numbers; I've never heard secession discussed seriously here in Texas), I go out and look up the source...and then see how trusted the source is.
I'd be happy to discuss the pros and cons of secession.
(02-18-2024, 01:07 PM)Kenzo Wrote: It`s bit complicated issue ( in my head ) ....or lets say that i think secession in USA would might not be a good idea , thought i am not living there , so my views are not so high value
Buuut, in countries like Russia....i would want secession right this second , but thats another country
If i have the power ( dictator ) i had all Indigenous peoples live in their own setup, own currency ....and own country with no mix to others....but that`s late now
If you ask me , i think the whole EU was mistake ,as like what it has come. We only need security cooperation , and NATO was allready there to do that , so yeah....a mistake. All European countries should have stayed as were just after WW2 , except the East germany/ ex-soviet which were ruled by USSR ,occupyed .
I would like to hear what UK citizen think about post-brexit etc....
There were other benefits... easy access to workers when needed and a unified currency (so there's none of the monetary loss when you exchange one currency for another.)
Mind you, that's just the 'brief thought about the issue' and not any serious consideration.
RE: Secession Trend Up? - Kenzo - 02-19-2024
(02-18-2024, 07:14 PM)Byrd Wrote: Any time I hit something that seems "odd" (those seemed like BIG over the top numbers; I've never heard secession discussed seriously here in Texas), I go out and look up the source...and then see how trusted the source is.
I'd be happy to discuss the pros and cons of secession.
There were other benefits... easy access to workers when needed and a unified currency (so there's none of the monetary loss when you exchange one currency for another.)
Mind you, that's just the 'brief thought about the issue' and not any serious consideration.
Yeeh well that`s certainly very true , i forged the exchange hassle . I remember when i was kid and Deutsche Mark was great currency, a national pride for Germans....as were Mercedes-Benz W123 model , which was very reliable car...the change from those times to current mess is astonishing.
For workers it`s good deal yes -
European parliament does make odd rules/laws
