Vladimir Putin 'spits in Trump's face'

[ElitePlebeian]

The trouble with boots on the ground, is it only amplifies the situation.
Putin is the one pushing this war, because of some ideal fantasy of the old USSR empire.

Ukraine is 28x smaller than Russia, Russia has taken just over 20% of Ukraine in nearly 4 years, the war has cost Russia approximately a million soldiers, and most of its decent military equipment. It's now mostly fighting in Ukraine with USSR era equipment. The Russian people are starting to get fed up with this war and Putin.
How many more years do you think the Russia military can keep fighting for? 

Putin doesn't want to withdraw from Ukraine and wants more land than he's already stolen and Ukraine to half it's military. That's his idea of peace talks.

It might amplify it but at least then you have a stronger negotiation position and not just pour money in forever. And Russia keeps buying material from China and have the man power to compensate the losses and weapon inferiority. That was also long passed proven.

[andy06shake]

The reality is that that war wont stop with just throwing money at it. Its not a claim, its the reality, everyone has seen that, except you apparantly.

The reality is money here isn't a magic wand Elite.

It's armor, ammo, and drones that literally prevent Russia from steamrolling Ukraine.

Without it, the war would escalate uncontrollably.

Observing reality means noticing survival isn't free, not declaring cash useless. 

And who is this "everyone" to whom you refer? 

[UltraBudgie]

Meanwhile, actual military strategy recognises that one side has to be pressured before talks matter.

Did Putin give any indication about what he didn't find acceptable about the last surrender offer? Was it the mineral rights stuff, NATO and security posture, territory recognitions, disposition of the current regime, or anything specific? I don't think he has to apply any additional pressure other than the ongoing attrition—Zelensky is already being seasoned with corruption scandals and is about ready to pop in the scapegoat oven. Regime change is inevitable at this point, isn't it? Am curious if you agree.

[Kurokage]

The reality is that that war wont stop with just throwing money at it. Its not a claim, its the reality, everyone has seen that, except you apparantly.

Part of the problem is, the west is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

If we send troops, this just re-affirms Putins lies that this is a war against NATO.
Putin's yes men have already said that using any seized assets to help Ukraine is a declaration of war. Putin is using any and all tactics against the west other than actual military weapons or forces. With the state Russia is in, a conventual war with Europe will only end badly for Russia, which could possibly escalate things into a nuclear conflict.

[ElitePlebeian]

The reality is money here isn't a magic wand Elite.

It's armor, ammo, and drones that literally prevent Russia from steamrolling Ukraine.

Without it, the war would escalate uncontrollably.

Observing reality means noticing survival isn't free, not declaring cash useless. 

And who is this "everyone" to whom you refer? 

Again deriving things i dont say or mean or means what I say. 

And yes I know what they say they do with the money. Which is what weve seen. 

Everyone= everyone else that has eyes and a bit of common sense. Which is many people I have talked abd heard about it.

[Kurokage]

Did Putin give any indication about what he didn't find acceptable about the last surrender offer? Was it the mineral rights stuff, NATO and security posture, territory recognitions, disposition of the current regime, or anything specific? I don't think he has to apply any additional pressure other than the ongoing attrition—Zelensky is already being seasoned with corruption scandals and is about ready to pop in the scapegoat oven. Regime change is inevitable at this point, isn't it? Am curious if you agree.

This is what Dmitry Peskove said...

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov insisted on Wednesday it was “not correct” to claim Putin had outright rejected the American plan. However, he refused to elaborate, stressing that “the quieter these negotiations are conducted, the more productive they will be.” He added that the talks were a normal process of finding compromise, noting: “Some things were accepted, some things were marked as unacceptable.”

And this from Ushakov...

On the Russian side, Putin's presidential aide Yuri Ushakov said "no compromise" had been reached during the five-hour meeting, with territorial concessions remaining the top issue.

[andy06shake]

Did Putin give any indication about what he didn't find acceptable about the last surrender offer? Was it the mineral rights stuff, NATO and security posture, territory recognitions, disposition of the current regime, or anything specific? I don't think he has to apply any additional pressure other than the ongoing attrition—Zelensky is already being seasoned with corruption scandals and is about ready to pop in the scapegoat oven. Regime change is inevitable at this point, isn't it? Am curious if you agree.

Putin's red lines haven't been clearly spelled out Ultra.

And claiming he's steering inevitable regime change seems like wishful thinking to me.

Russia's demands have shifted.

They move the goal posts all the time, contradicting previous positions as they see fit.

Which is hardly a blueprint for certainty, chaos on the other hand....

Zelenskyy facing corruption claims doesn't equate to an imminent "scapegoat oven".

That's more like narrative theatre, as opposed to strategy.

Suggesting Ukraine's collapse is inevitable ignores their resilience, our continued support, and Russia's own logistical limits.

Attrition hasn't guaranteed anything, certainly not victory for anyone.

It's brutal, yes, but far from decisive.

Treating vague threats as a fixed roadmap is like reading tea leaves and claiming you can predict earthquakes.

[Creaky]

Coming from someone with a obvious vendetta, that's funny!! 
You made your feelings clear on ATS and are clearly biased because of the Balkans.

The Balkans? 
Wrong guy, I just think the West is corrupt and probably right, the west screwed the Balkan’s, like Africa and Asia 

Vendetta, just think Putin has made the correct decision to protect his countries sovereign hood from the west

Why should Putin accept terms from countries that clearly have no respect for them
Use your brain

[UltraBudgie]

It's brutal, yes, but far from decisive.

Treating vague threats as a fixed roadmap is like reading tea leaves and claiming you can predict earthquakes.

Thank you (and Kurokage); that clears things up a bit. It is more like drinking a cup of tea and noticing that it's getting near the bottom and the tea leaves are going to be visible soon, rather than predicting their exact configuration. Can only pour fresh hot water in for so long, haha.

[andy06shake]

Again deriving things i dont say or mean or means what I say. 

And yes I know what they say they do with the money. Which is what weve seen. 

Everyone= everyone else that has eyes and a bit of common sense. Which is many people I have talked abd heard about it.

Again, that's just a classic "don't put words in my mouth" followed by "everyone agrees with me" maneuver.

That won't fly with me, buddy. 

Just because you've talked to a few like-minded people doesn't make it a universal truth.

Observing where aid actually goes isn't the same as ignoring its strategic importance or impact. 

Tanks, ammo, and drones don't count if you're cherry-picking corruption tales.

And claiming "everyone with eyes and common sense" sees what you do is as convincing as saying" I looked out the window, clearly the sun revolves around me.”

Reality is somewhat nuanced.

Not your personal echo chamber.

And ignoring that doesn't make your argument stronger.  

Anyhoo, I've said my piece for the time being, need to get on with some work in the real world for a spell. 

I've spent the better part of this morning debating matters im hardly likely to influence or change. 

I suppose that goes for all of us if im being honest.

Have fun DI.