VIPs visit Area 51

[Inspector44]

While I don't take offense, I think this information is closer to being accurate than "incredibly dubious".

Its dubious to me because I have dealt with OPSEC and details about the SEC DEF's specific itinerary is not public knowledge. Its guess work, they think he flew into Area-51 to maybe look at an airplane not built or flown there. I don't care if some aviation enthusiast took pictures from miles away.

[Zaphod58]

Demonstrators were flown out of Saint Louis there is no way anyone "knows" they were flown out of Groom Lake. And as far as tracking them, its all guesswork they didn't see who was on them and if they landed at Groom lake. E4-Bs fly in and out of Nelis and other bases all the time, it being there means nothing.

Uh, the E-4B never flies out of Nellis. I know spotters that have lived in the Nellis area for many years that have never seen an E-4B at the base. 

The aircraft that arrived was using the TITAN callsign, used when SecDef is on board, flying out of Asia, where the SecDef was just visiting. So you’re suggesting that he flew to the Asia area on the E-4B, which then flew back to Nellis without him and he found another ride home?

[Inspector44]

Uh, the E-4B never flies out of Nellis. I know spotters that have lived in the Nellis area for many years that have never seen an E-4B at the base. 

The aircraft that arrived was using the TITAN callsign, used when SecDef is on board, flying out of Asia, where the SecDef was just visiting. So you’re suggesting that he flew to the Asia area on the E-4B, which then flew back to Nellis without him and he found another ride home?

So you don't know first hand huh? figures. Why would the E4-B never land there? Its a large centrally located base that is the home of one of the worlds largest training exercises which I have personally participated in several times.

[ProfessorMeThis]

I would never describe the people participating in the aforementioned discussion as "some aviation enthusiast".  These folks have been doing this for a very long time and have built an extensive network.

[Zaphod58]

So you don't know first hand huh? figures. Why would the E4-B never land there? Its a large centrally located base that is the home of one of the worlds largest training exercises which I have personally participated in several times.

Because there’s no reason for it to. There are a lot of “large centrally located bases” that the E-4B rarely goes to. And it doesn’t participate in any of the Flags, so it wouldn’t be there for that. SecDef doesn’t have much to do with the Flags either. 

You don’t know first hand that they weren’t on those planes either, but you’ve decided they weren’t. How is that any different?

[Inspector44]

I would never describe the people participating in the aforementioned discussion as "some aviation enthusiast".  These folks have been doing this for a very long time and have built an extensive network.

They are literally airplane nerds standing on hills taking pictures of airplanes and tracking flights on aps while high fiving each other. They are not involved in any direct logistics. The F-47 is being developed and flight tested in St Louis.

[Inspector44]

Because there’s no reason for it to. There are a lot of “large centrally located bases” that the E-4B rarely goes to. And it doesn’t participate in any of the Flags, so it wouldn’t be there for that. SecDef doesn’t have much to do with the Flags either. 

You don’t know first hand that they weren’t on those planes either, but you’ve decided they weren’t. How is that any different?

How do you know they don't participate in any training exercises? You are not privy to that information. How do they become competent at their role as a doomsday aircraft crew without practicing? I know that the information is not divulged to people like you or any other aviation enthusiast.

[ProfessorMeThis]

Where is the documentation that the F47 is being developed in St. Louis?  All I've read is that the development is EXPECTED to occur in St. Louis.  Perhaps, someone with your vast experience has seen this development first hand?  I mean, your asking us to take your word for something while demeaning anything posted by us or the people we quote.  

Saying something like "I've personally participated in several times" doesn't strike me as how a military person would describe his/her experience. Exactly what was your "participation"?

[Zaphod58]

How do you know they don't participate in any training exercises? You are not privy to that information. How do they become competent at their role as a doomsday aircraft crew without practicing? I know that the information is not divulged to people like you or any other aviation enthusiast.

And it’s divulged to you right? You know more than anyone else and your word is Fact, while anyone else just has opinion.

 The E-4B mission doesn’t involve any exercises at Nellis. If it does participate it’s not flying from Nellis, and doesn’t travel to Nellis for it.

[Inspector44]

Where is the documentation that the F47 is being developed in St. Louis?  All I've read is that the development is EXPECTED to occur in St. Louis.  Perhaps, someone with your vast experience has seen this development first hand?  I mean, your asking us to take your word for something while demeaning anything posted by us or the people we quote.  

Saying something like "I've personally participated in several times" doesn't strike me as how a military person would describe his/her experience. Exactly what was your "participation"?

First, I don't take orders from you. I am not required to provide you with sensitive information on a public website to fulfill some meaningless win. Your complete belief in what the other member arguing with me said is ridiculous, what proof does he have that he is an expert in anything other than claiming to be some aviation SME and the only one allowed to refute claims in this field? Boeing's test facility is in St Louis.