US Dept. of Labor keeps lying...

[Maxmars]

I am not really surprised that many feel that voting lacks any value.

There is a litany of negatives built into the mix.  Perceptions like no confidence in the 'honorability' of those controlling the process, the equipment, and the mercurial oversight, and the fact that the 'players' are part and parcel of the problem, which persist regardless of who "wins."  How every treatment of the subject in the mainstream 'public dialog' seems to fail to reach a tone of reasonable reassurance.  That the political 'lip service' done to reflect a dialogue about it is an exercise in impotence.  A few are finally leaning towards 'simple is better; solutions that refuse the 'high-cost' tech approach that has done nothing but make matters worse.

My dad told me once, about voting... "If they hide the process in anyway (how/where they're counting, reporting, who is doing it)... it's because the process isn't 'safe'."  That was a long time ago.  Go figure, ...we were just chatting about nothing in general...,  and it ended in "But I don't think that'll ever happen in our country."  Well... it has. And we can tell that the "machines" used are made by 'trade' secret-wielding companies who were contracted by politicians (and their convenient processes.)  We can tell this is so because they don't work...

But regardless of all that, I would ask you to reconsider.  I really have no bones to pick with anyone who votes in a way I wouldn't.  So the request doesn't hinge on "who will win?"  It's about the idea that if you don't vote, you're just along for the ride... I would never recommend just going along for the ride without some say as to where I, my family and friends, and even my community and society are going. 

Our persistent problem is that a large chunk of us are always subject to the "it would have been different if he or she had won" as an excuse to pretend the world is predictable (never mind that most presidents for many generation have been self-serving, party worshipping zealots.)

As it stands now... the only way to begin 'fixing' the problem is not relinquishing your voice to "whatever man." (please, that's not meant to imply that you meant that.)  I mean not voting isn't a 'statement.'  All those things you said... now that's a statement! That voice... those things need to be reflected in your voice in the system we have... which could work (it really could.)

The reason it fails isn't in the process... it is in the behavior of those administering it.  Politicians sporadically echo concerns of the public about voting... and then they dance around the crap that isn't the root of the problem... the root of the problem is that THEY are ALWAYS looking to "get away with" something.  Always.  They do not self-police, and they use "politics" as a tool to manipulate "perceptions"... case in point.

Yeah, shit sucks, it sure does.  But I hope your voice would be included in the 'will' of the people (because my kids, and maybe grandkids someday are going to be counting on "somebody... anybody" to have at least tried to keep our shit together through this time)... I respect your thoughts greatly, even those we may disagree on. 

The use of your vote is not only a transactional, win - lose, thing.  It isn't just about outcomes... it's your voice... use it.  The founding fathers shackled the future politicians with a direct inviolable burden... we, the people must be "heard" (we get to vote) - that can never 'go away' unless the government of that parentage is gone.  Please vote.

To me, there is a 'fantasy' second step... begin to realize that the source of 90% of our misfunction in government have to do with nothing more complicated than "partisan" mentality.  Their stupid games of "we're better than you" have caused more national grief than anything else in modern history.  It's like they can recognize only two countries... "Us" and "them."  It's a toxic competition.

We should probably send both parties in the duopoly to the time out box.  Oh the horror.

[l0st]

But regardless of all that, I would ask you to reconsider.  I really have no bones to pick with anyone who votes in a way I wouldn't.  So the request doesn't hinge on "who will win?"  It's about the idea that if you don't vote, you're just along for the ride... I would never recommend just going along for the ride without some say as to where I, my family and friends, and even my community and society are going. 

...

As it stands now... the only way to begin 'fixing' the problem is not relinquishing your voice to "whatever man."

The reason it fails isn't in the process... it is in the behavior of those administering it.  Politicians sporadically echo concerns of the public about voting... and then they dance around the crap that isn't the root of the problem... the root of the problem is that THEY are ALWAYS looking to "get away with" something.  Always.  They do not self-police, and they use "politics" as a tool to manipulate "perceptions"... case in point.

I have always held similar beliefs to those you describe until recently. I fail to see the point in participating in a system of laws in which the politicians involved simply ignore them. In the last 5-10 years in particular it appears that the current modus-operandi of Government at all levels is to simply do whatever they want, whenever they want.

Covid lockdowns are the perfect example of that. Absolutely no laws anywhere on the books allowing such action to be taken by the government. In fact, flagrant violations of other statutes were rampant during that time such as violations of HIPAA. Businesses firing people over refusing forced medical treatments, in violation of the Geneva Conventions, with Government fully backing and condoning this behavior. Arresting people who spoke up on the issues in front of school boards and city councils, forcibly removing them - remember, petitioning for redress of grievances is supposed to be a cornerstone of our "Democracy." And on what charges? Disagreeing with public officials?

Hell, the school district where I used to live installed plexiglass cubicles in the classrooms and forcibly separated students into plastic jail cells - with some teachers even going so far as to tape students' mouths shut for speaking during class under the guise of "spreading covid." A man attended a school board meeting to protest this issue, with pre-arranged speaking time on the agenda, and the superintendent refused to listen to him, had security remove him, and asked officers to trespass him from school board property. When he refused to leave the property he was arrested by police officers and jailed. He had the right to be there, on public property, and to voice his concerns to the school board.

Lets not even get started on the three ring circus of "investigations" and "impeachment inquiries" etc that were obviously baseless and well outside the law. Warrantless wiretapping, used on Presidential candidates and other political figures who were deemed "threats to the establishment." 50 intelligence officers who "came forward" to publicly state, incorrectly, that the Hunter Biden laptop was "misinformation" then an FBI that said "oops we lost it" to today where "oh look we found it."

You're telling me these people care about the rule of law? You're telling me they care about you and me? They surely don't. Remember the famous Benjamin Franklin quote:

"A republic, if you can keep it."

Sadly, we've already lost it. This is no longer a Constitutional Republic. We are living in some sort of dystopian authoritarian fascist police state backed by an oligarchy of ruling families who utilize the government to implement business friendly policies in a two tier system of justice that at this point is so out of control they cheat, lie, steal and do it right in front of all of us, and then laugh in our faces about it.

Nah, I've checked out, my friend. This system is pointless at present and is already collapsing under its own weight as we speak.

[Maxmars]

I have always held similar beliefs to those you describe until recently. I fail to see the point in participating in a system of laws in which the politicians involved simply ignore them. In the last 5-10 years in particular it appears that the current modus-operandi of Government at all levels is to simply do whatever they want, whenever they want.

....

Nah, I've checked out, my friend. This system is pointless at present and is already collapsing under its own weight as we speak.

Respect.  I don't want to beat a dead horse, and you're the doctor; if you say the horse is dead, then that's it.

Thanks for entertaining my thoughts though. That was patient and kind.

I wish it weren't so, that the government hadn't become a partisan plaything and that the thespians hadn't taken over the theater.  But they have...so now even any reporting can no longer be trusted by the sober citizen.  Forgive me if I simply say, we can get passed this, but it will not be a "hero's" job... there will be no 'silver bullet' or 'magic pill' that will fix this dysfunction being engineered and nurtured by the power elite.  Politicians can't fix politicians.

[Blaine91555]

In the last 5-10 years in particular it appears that the current modus-operandi of Government at all levels is to simply do whatever they want, whenever they want.

Exactly right, and I think it goes beyond that to an even more dangerous thing going on. Our leaders and their appointed minions have adopted the idea that " We the People" are all too stupid to make decisions for ourselves. Things like elections are purely for show and they pity us as they use us.

Throw a little flash powder on the fire and we will do whatever they say. We have not changed much if at all since our early human ancestors stood in awe of the tribes' witch doctor. We are still the same gullible beasts ready to kill our own for an extra chunk of meat.

[cenpuppie]

Yea, the numbers released by the government are totally fake and thats mostly to appease the wall street crowd.

When they goal seek the numbers wall street wants, after a few months those numbers are always revisited and always down.