Trump and Epstein were great buddies

[andy06shake]

I don't think they were buddies.
Trump banned him from his properties.
This was before the arrests etc etc.

Flying on someone's private jet 7 times strongly suggests a level of familiarity and friendship.

Same with statements like the one below. 

"I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy, he’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side."

[putnam6]

We are discussing a topic, some of us use identifiers, many think Im a Trumper, when I'm just an independent who wants less chaos and more economic growth.

"Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." ― Ferris bueller

Is it still okay to have differing opinions? AND differing degrees of concern

Shouldn't we be more tolerant of how individuals express themselves?

It's not the vocabulary and vernacular used; it's the message behind the method of communication. 

It's like living and tolerating with somebody with Tourettes

[Kurokage]

We are discussing a topic, some of us use identifiers, many think Im a Trumper, when I'm just an independent who wants less chaos and more economic growth.

Is it still okay to have differing opinions? AND differing degrees of concern

Shouldn't we be more tolerant of how individuals express themselves?

It's not the vocabulary and vernacular used; it's the message behind the method of communication. 

It's like living and tolerating with somebody with Tourettes

I do agree with you.

But like I've said, this isn't about politics, it's about a group of perverts. Both Donald Trump and Bill Clinton (amongst many others) have been shown to use their power and influence to predate on young women and get away with it for the most part. Trump had used the Epstein files to fire up his supporters claiming he'd show the files, and now he's back treading and seems to be trying to cover up the situation. 
People are feed up with politicians taking advantage once in power, Trump claimed he'd drain the swamp, but all I see is him adding his own particular stink to the mix.

[putnam6]

I do agree with you.

But like I've said, this isn't about politics, it's about a group of perverts. Both Donald Trump and Bill Clinton (amongst many others) have been shown to use their power and influence to predate on young women and get away with it for the most part. Trump had used the Epstein files to fire up his supporters claiming he'd show the files, and now he's back treading and seems to be trying to cover up the situation. 
People are feed up with politicians taking advantage once in power, Trump claimed he'd drain the swamp, but all I see is him adding his own particular stink to the mix.

It's not uncommon for politicians to stretch the truth on the campaign trail and in other contexts, and Trump has certainly made headlines for doing so.

I would say that my experiences have given me a certain resilience to taking his words at face value. Having spent much of my adult life in the company of businessmen from New York and the Northeast, I've observed that many comments often mix exaggeration and negotiating strategies, sometimes making it challenging to discern the truth.

Presidential campaigns often involve exaggerated promises or misleading claims, as candidates aim to win public support. Below is a list of notable campaign lies or misleading statements made by modern U.S. presidents, focusing on verifiable instances from their campaigns. I’m defining "modern presidents" as those serving from 1960 onward, as this aligns with the television age and more robust fact-checking. Each example includes the context and consequences, with a critical eye on the establishment narrative as per your instructions.

• John F. Kennedy (1960 Campaign): Kennedy claimed a "missile gap" existed, suggesting the Soviet Union had surpassed the U.S. in nuclear missile capabilities. This was a key talking point to criticize the Eisenhower administration’s defense policies. Evidence later showed the U.S. had a significant advantage in nuclear arms, and Kennedy’s campaign likely knew this but used the claim to stoke fear and gain votes. The gamble worked, helping him win a close election, but it escalated Cold War tensions.
  
• Lyndon B. Johnson (1964 Campaign): Johnson promised, “We are not about to send American boys 9 or 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves.” This suggested he would avoid escalating U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Meanwhile, his administration was already planning to send over 100,000 troops, with numbers eventually reaching over 500,000. This deception helped secure his landslide victory but led to a “credibility gap” when the public realized the extent of U.S. involvement, contributing to distrust and protests.
  
• George H.W. Bush (1988 Campaign): Bush famously declared, “Read my lips: no new taxes,” to appeal to fiscal conservatives. After taking office, he faced a Democratic-controlled Congress and agreed to tax increases to address budget deficits. The broken promise became a headline (“Read my lips: I lied”) and was widely seen as a key reason for his 1992 re-election loss, as it alienated his base.
  
• Bill Clinton (1992 and 1996 Campaigns): Clinton’s campaigns didn’t feature a single standout lie as much as a pattern of embellishment, such as exaggerating his middle-class roots or policy impacts. His later denial of an affair with Monica Lewinsky (“I did not have sexual relations with that woman”) wasn’t a campaign promise but became infamous post-1996, leading to his impeachment. While not directly a campaign lie, it reinforced perceptions of his slipperiness, though his popularity endured due to a strong economy.
  
• George W. Bush (2000 Campaign): Bush campaigned on a “humble” foreign policy, criticizing nation-building and promising restraint. Post-9/11, his administration launched the Iraq War, justified by claims of weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) that were later disproven. While the WMD claims came after the campaign, his pivot to interventionism contradicted his 2000 rhetoric. Critics argue he exploited post-9/11 fears, and the war’s fallout (4,486 U.S. military deaths, $2.2 trillion cost) damaged his legacy.
  
• Barack Obama (2008 Campaign): Obama repeatedly promised, “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan,” to sell the Affordable Care Act (ACA). After passage, millions lost their plans due to ACA regulations, earning this claim PolitiFact’s “Lie of the Year” in 2013. Obama apologized, admitting he wasn’t clear enough, but the broken promise fueled distrust and gave ammunition to ACA opponents.
  
• Donald Trump (2016 and 2020 Campaigns): Trump’s campaigns included numerous false claims, such as asserting thousands of Muslims in New Jersey celebrated 9/11 (debunked) and exaggerating his business record. In 2020, he claimed Biden would destroy protections for pre-existing conditions, despite his own administration’s actions undermining them. His 2016 claim of being Michigan’s “Man of the Year” was fabricated, repeated in 2020 with no evidence. Fact-checkers documented over 30,000 false or misleading claims during his presidency, with campaign lies like election fraud claims in 2020 causing significant unrest, including the January 6 Capitol riot.
  

Critical Perspective: The establishment narrative often frames these lies as either strategic necessities or egregious betrayals, depending on the president’s party or the media outlet’s leanings. For example, Johnson’s Vietnam deception and Bush’s WMD claims are often criticized more harshly than Roosevelt’s or Kennedy’s lies, possibly due to their tangible costs in lives and money. Trump’s falsehoods are highlighted for their volume, but some argue the media’s focus on him reflects bias, as earlier presidents’ lies (e.g., Roosevelt’s war preparations) were equally consequential but less scrutinized due to weaker fact-checking infrastructure. Jimmy Carter stands out as an exception, with no major campaign lies attributed to him, though his honesty may have contributed to his perceived political weakness. The public often forgives lies perceived as serving national interests (e.g., Roosevelt’s) but punishes those seen as self-serving or harmful (e.g., Bush’s taxes, Trump’s election claims).

[Kurokage]

It's not uncommon for politicians to stretch the truth on the campaign trail and in other contexts, and Trump has certainly made headlines for doing so.

I would say that my experiences have given me a certain resilience to taking his words at face value. Having spent much of my adult life in the company of businessmen from New York and the Northeast, I've observed that many comments often mix exaggeration and negotiating strategies, sometimes making it challenging to discern the truth.

I would say I feel the same, politicians and the truth don't mix, but this thing with Epstein is on another level. 

Trump came into this claiming to be different to all the rest, and was promising to 'drain the swamp' and riled up his supporters to fever pitch with his promises of releasing the Epstein files. 

Now he's been shown to be just as sleazy if not more, and been very close friends for 15 years with the known paedophile Epstein, and now looks to be giving a convicted child trafficker an easy ride.

It's not uncommon for politicians to stretch the truth on the campaign trail and in other contexts, and Trump has certainly made headlines for doing so.

I would say that my experiences have given me a certain resilience to taking his words at face value. Having spent much of my adult life in the company of businessmen from New York and the Northeast, I've observed that many comments often mix exaggeration and negotiating strategies, sometimes making it challenging to discern the truth.

I would say I feel the same, politicians and the truth don't mix, but this is thing with Epstein is on another level.

Trump came into this claiming to be different to all the rest, and was promising to 'drain the swamp' and riled up his supporters to fever pitch with his promises of releasing the Epstein files. 

Now he's been shown to be just as sleazy if not more, and been very close friends for 15 years with the known paedophile Epstein, and now looks to be giving a convicted child trafficker an easy ride.

[cherokeetroy]

It's not uncommon for politicians to stretch the truth on the campaign trail and in other contexts, and Trump has certainly made headlines for doing so.

I would say that my experiences have given me a certain resilience to taking his words at face value. Having spent much of my adult life in the company of businessmen from New York and the Northeast, I've observed that many comments often mix exaggeration and negotiating strategies, sometimes making it challenging to discern the truth.

In other words, Trump is just another run-of-the-mill liar

Then why should he be trusted when he claims innocence?

Or when he claims he had no association with Epstein?

Or that the files are bullshit?

How can anything be trusted out of the mouth of a serial liar?

[Maxmars]

@Kurokage

"... politicians and the truth don't mix..."

Needs to be the epitaph BOTH political parties.

They made such a game of the responsibilities they were given that nothing
can ever really just work... it's all about "what we can get away with," "appearances," "secret deals," and of course "expedience."  They bury this under the ideas of "compromise"... Just as they bury their oath of loyalty to the party, under patriotism.

(And then they labored as a team to keep it that way... again, masking it as "institutional" continuity.)

My biggest irritation in our social lives is that people have been conditioned to think talking about the antics and productions made by "politicians" as if those actually were "politics" and not "theater."

... nice effect... expertly achieved... Think tanks + Media "win."

but we were warned (of course, by conspiracy theorists.)

[putnam6]

I would say I feel the same, politicians and the truth don't mix, but this is thing with Epstein is on another level.

Trump came into this claiming to be different to all the rest, and was promising to 'drain the swamp' and riled up his supporters to fever pitch with his promises of releasing the Epstein files. 

Now he's been shown to be just as sleazy if not more, and been very close friends for 15 years with the known paedophile Epstein, and now looks to be giving a convicted child trafficker an easy ride.

All true, and Im not arguing this reality, but you are conveniently leaving out the commonly accepted fact Epstein/Trump 

Their relationship reportedly ended around 2004–2007, with Trump claiming he banned Epstein from Mar-a-Lago for “inappropriate” behavior, specifically for “stealing” employees, including Giuffre.

Furthermore, most of Trump's mentions come from Giuffre and 2 other women. All of this before he was President, if there was more to this than the accusations, why didn't that daming evidence pop up before Trump was elected the first time? 

Was the plan to hold the evidence and then be able to blackmail Trump and milk him and others for every drop? 

When you think about it, maybe Trump was being blackmailed this whole time, just from the now-known and accepted basic relationship evidence. It's certainly feasible he did semi sleazy shit and got semi sleazy blackmailed for it. 

Perhaps it was his true impetus to run for President, perhaps thats why FBI directors withheld evidence. 

It's just as likely as any of the other scenarios discussed.

Those files have been gone over with a fine-tooth comb by 3 administrations, and names are hidden by NDAs.

I suppose one could theorize that Trump's name is hidden behind the NDAs, and the left found this out a long time ago
And they have been mortal enemies ever since, which is why they have hounded him with impeachments and Stormy Daniels, FBI raids, indictments, etc. 

They know he was such a danger they wanted Biden to run again, and once he faltered, they thought Harris/Walz could overtake him and thats why the campaign spent so much money hiring entertainers etc.
 

Allegations and Denials: While Giuffre never accused Trump of sexual misconduct, her 2016 deposition stated she saw him at Epstein’s properties but did not witness him participating in any illicit acts. Another accuser, Maria Farmer, reported a “troubling encounter” with Trump to the FBI in 1996 and 2006, though she provided no evidence of criminality. A 2016 lawsuit by an anonymous “Jane Doe” alleging rape by Trump and Epstein was dropped without substantiation and is unrelated to Giuffre’s case. Trump has consistently denied wrongdoing, and no credible evidence links him to Epstein’s crimes.
Public and Media Focus: Trump’s high profile, past friendship with Epstein, and recent comments about Giuffre have kept his name in the spotlight. Conspiracy theories, amplified by both political sides, speculate about a cover-up or hidden “client list,” though the Justice Department found no such evidence. 

[cherokeetroy]

Furthermore, most of Trump's mentions come from Giuffre and 2 other women. All of this before he was President, if there was more to this than the accusations, why didn't that daming evidence pop up before Trump was elected the first time? 

By that same argument, we could ask why hasn't any damning evidence been exposed or leaked about Bill Clinton?

Clinton visited the island 28 times According to Trump

Epstein visited the White House multiple times during Clinton's presidency

Yet, the only evidence that's been revealed about Clinton's involvement is the same as Trump's -- ambiguous images and accusations 

Nothing was really revealed about Prince Andrew, either for that matter

Nothing beyond Virginia Guffrie's testimony 

There has been no damning evidence revealed about any possible participants 

Similarly, there's been zero exposure about crimes of alleged participants at Sean Combs infamous "freak offs" when hundreds or thousands of people were in attendance 

Is there a pattern, here?

[DBCowboy]

No one on the left will ever believe anything that comes from the Trump Administration.  They will always support the opposite.

 

With that being said, I wish Trump would come out as "Pro-Breathing".