The Art of Asking: Why do We Minimize the Help We Need?

[eriathwen]

I understand that you may consider your neighbors as friendly and warm.

But they too have pressures and drives that are theirs alone, and might even mislead themselves...

I have seen people weave personal narratives that help them cope with reality... including...

"He won't mind.. he's so nice..." and try to make their request less imposing...

Experiment with exploring why you feel guilty saying "I can't help this time" without adding
"Last time it became a problem for me." because you are nice, and enjoy being nice,
and you don't want to 'not' help.

Clearly this hurt you... maybe not 'seriously' but it was a hurt.

Personally, I think you should be able to talk that out with a friend. 
Perhaps they are friendly, but not true reciprocal 'friends.'
Or perhaps they don't 'know' your friendliness is an invitation to explore, not to use.

That really shouldn't matter though...
being nice comes from you, it's not about the other person.

Sorry if I was presumptuous about this response... like my dear friend above...
this was not meant as advice...
just a perspective shared...

But why do we do this, isn't this just spankink our own back after all, and would it be of great help to society if we changed this way of dealing with problems, to be honest in word and deed? And thanks for the advice, I'm not looking for advice, I'm trying to understand a bigger problem, and find good solutions to address it. What needs to be done?

[Maxmars]

My sincerest simple answer is.... speak to them about how you felt, how you feel.

If it is important enough to trouble you now... it would appear it's needs a peaceful resolution...

so you can keep and grow your friendship.

Why?

We do this "reality-massaging" when talking to others, probably because it's how we make it a more palatable situation.
If not to the favor-'giver', then to the favor-'asker.'

But you can never know when it comes to people... for whom there are no guarantees.

But when you don't truly "know" the person you're asking a favor from, you're not gonna make it sound like
your asking for the moon and the stars... "a quick run down to the store" could mean run in and get a pack of smokes OR
grocery shopping... the one who is unspecific and optimistic maybe doesn't want to think about that... 

Sorry if I missed the mark on what you are asking....

[eriathwen]

I wasn't giving you advice on kindness lol. I'm just saying if you are going to do someone a favour then do it for positive reasons. I didn't realise you hadn't said yes yet.

I am always honest, even in small things. It's an interesting path and good fun really! I am also very kind, self effacing and humble, so I can get away with the most brutal truths!

Having said that. I am no font of wisdom and can be wrong about stuff. I see many more intelligent people than me here on the boards (I incude you in that) but if nothing else I have integrity and honesty.

I really appreciate your honesty about not being a font of wisdom, and I love that you find honesty fun! I think you’re right that it can be a good path. I try to be honest too, but I slip up sometimes, which is why I reflect a lot on my own biases. I’m curious, though: You say you’re always honest, even in small things—have you ever been in a situation where it was hard to be honest, like my neighbors minimizing their need? Or where someone wasn’t honest with you about what they needed? I think those moments teach us a lot about why we dodge truth, and how we can be better. I’d love to hear more about your experiences with that!

[eriathwen]

My sincerest simple answer is.... speak to them about how you felt, how you feel.

If it is important enough to trouble you now... it would appear it's needs a peaceful resolution...

so you can keep and grow your friendship.

Why?

We do this "reality-massaging" when talking to others, probably because it's how we make it a more palatable situation.
If not to the favor-'giver', then to the favor-'asker.'

But you can never know when it comes to people... for whom there are no guarantees.

But when you don't truly "know" the person you're asking a favor from, you're not gonna make it sound like
your asking for the moon and the stars... "a quick run down to the store" could mean run in and get a pack of smokes OR
grocery shopping... the one who is unspecific and optimistic maybe doesn't want to think about that... 

Sorry if I missed the mark on what you are asking....

This is not a topic about the neighbor, I know how to handle this situation, but honestly, this was a great way to talk about a significant problem that I see among people, and an attempt to find answers to why it is like this and what can we as a society do better? The way we tend to handle things creates problems that are not necessary in the first place, and I am trying to find answers to why. It seems to me in many ways that the posts are not read properly, but rather skimmed through. I try to address more than what is on the surface. And honestly, I handle the neighbor, I don't need help with that :)

[eriathwen]

Hey all, thanks for the responses so far! I love the energy, but I’m noticing something funny—we’re all focusing on the neighbors like they’re the main event, but that’s not really the point I was hoping to dig into. Don’t get me wrong, I can handle my neighbor situation just fine (honestly, it’s more of a mild annoyance than a crisis—I’ve got bigger fish to fry, like figuring out why we all dodge the hard truths!).
What I’m really curious about is this: why do we, as a community that values honesty and integrity ( Deny Ignorence), tend to skim past the bigger questions? Like, why do people (including me, including you?) minimize what they need or avoid taking responsibility, even when we know it builds trust to be straight up? Or why is it so tempting to point fingers at others (like my neighbors) instead of looking at how we might do the same thing?
I’m not mad, I promise—just amused and a little puzzled. If we’re all about truth here, let’s tackle the tough stuff. Has anyone ever caught themselves avoiding honesty in a small way, or seen how it plays out in bigger systems? Or am I just shouting into the void here? (No offense if I am—I’ve got thick skin and a sense of humor about it!)
Let’s not let this turn into just a neighbor-bashing session. What do you think—we up for diving deeper, or should I grab some popcorn and watch the drama unfold? ;)

[argentus]

I love that story—it shows even the most self-sustaining people have needs they don’t always admit. And yes, minimizing to avoid obligation makes sense too. It’s like my neighbors didn’t want to feel they owed me, but by not being honest, they made it harder for me to trust them. I’m curious—what do you think it would take for more of us to be honest about our needs, even if it feels vulnerable? Or have you ever had a moment where being honest about needing help changed a relationship for the better?

I think it would be wonderful if we were all honest about our needs;  I'm not certain any of us are truly capable of complete honesty.   All manner of things influence us and our investment in our self-perception is often a driving force.  I don't have everything figured out;  sometimes I think growing older is the process of realising that I have nothing figured out, but being okay with that.  

More than 40 years ago when I was in my 20s, I was at the bottom:  no home, no job, just an old broke-down car and living in a huge city.    I started listing people who were to blame for my situation, and realised in a great personal epiphany that "blame" didn't matter a whit.   What mattered was responsibility, and I was and am and will be responsible for virtually everything that happens to me.   From that point on, I was free.    I made some rules for myself that freed me even more, and while I will continue to refurb myself until I die, I lost a lot of things that were distracting minutiae that didn't really help me out much.   

I believe I can "afford" directness.   I am aware that my directness can sometimes make my friends uncomfortable.  I trust them to take it.  I will also tell you that, yes, there are times when frankness can create an immediate problem, but yield favourable rewards in the future.   There are also times when I choose to STFU, thinking that [my] truth might hurt someone's feelings or make them feel badly.   In some confrontations, calm directness can be a useful weapon.  

I am honest with my neighbors, and hopefully with myself, as all of us have to live together, and living near someone you don't trust isn't a good thing.

[Maxmars]

I seem to have misread the way you lead your thread.
It appeared to me that the focus was the neighbors actions.

Just to reassure you that the obtuseness was unintentional.

I'm not sure that social interactions can be registered as honest, or any 'value.'

Social interactions often seem alchemically mysterious, a mathematically disharmonious multi-variant anomaly... impossible to truly "model" to 100%.

When it comes to society, we would have to question every single individual to hope to be correct in the answer of 'why' we do anything at all.
(I find that many people have a drive to model the world, to expect all thing are knowable... perhaps true, but perhaps not all.
Metaphorically speaking, it's like trying to predict when and where a tornado will twitch.)

I don't think you can accurately answer questions about a distinctly 'other' person...
(despite the fact that you shouldn't risk it)
You must rely on luck or cleverness.

Guess which some people choose?
They "try" to 'make' things "appear" appropriate to their own narrative.
We might and often do take that for dishonesty,
People who do that often find that it was themselves they were fooling.

But this is all a mix of 'growing up' in life.

People slight each other, but it isn't necessarily a harbinger of a larger specter of moral decay.
And sometimes, meh... we take it on the chin because the slight was little more than an uncomfortable lesson for you
- no true 'need' to extend it further.

That is, of course, only my opinion.

[Anna]

Hey all, thanks for the responses so far! I love the energy, but I’m noticing something funny—we’re all focusing on the neighbors like they’re the main event, but that’s not really the point I was hoping to dig into. Don’t get me wrong, I can handle my neighbor situation just fine (honestly, it’s more of a mild annoyance than a crisis—I’ve got bigger fish to fry, like figuring out why we all dodge the hard truths!).
What I’m really curious about is this: why do we, as a community that values honesty and integrity ( Deny Ignorence), tend to skim past the bigger questions? Like, why do people (including me, including you?) minimize what they need or avoid taking responsibility, even when we know it builds trust to be straight up? 

You seem to overthink it all. People (not only your neighbors) are dishonest when they try to manipulate others into doing them a favor. Sure, there can be other issues involved but your original post clearly shows your neighbors' arrogance and manipulative behavior (like suggesting you could take the dog to the dentist).

Sure, being straight up builds trust but manipulation relies on a lie. And if you want to dupe somebody into doing what they aren't very willing to do, then lying works better than telling the truth. Why should I tell you you will need to put up with my dog for the whole day if I can tell you it's just a couple of hours? If I could convince you it's just a minor nuisance to put your cat outside for the whole day or miss your doctor appointment, then it's all the better. Dishonesty isn't supposed to create problems for the manipulator, only for his or her victim.

You see some philosophical problems here, for me it's just good old manipulation thriving on the lack of assertiveness. The former wouldn't exist without the latter. And this is the problem you need to address; your troubles with saying NO that encourage other people's manipulative behavior.

[eriathwen]

OK, I QUIT! You all clearly lack the bandwidth to get this—case closed. I wanted to talk why we dodge truth, not babysit a dog or outwit a neighbor. Moderators, lock it up—I’m off to paint with my pup and chat with folks who read past the first line. Thanks for the laughs, though—I’m cracking up too hard to stay. ‘Deny Ignorance,’ yet stuck on a dog? Priceless. :) But it was fun while it lasted, and well worth the try.


@moderator , please lock this thread for me will you!

[argentus]

OK, I QUIT! You all clearly lack the bandwidth to get this—case closed. I wanted to talk why we dodge truth, not babysit a dog or outwit a neighbor. Moderators, lock it up—I’m off to paint with my pup and chat with folks who read past the first line. Thanks for the laughs, though—I’m cracking up too hard to stay. ‘Deny Ignorance,’ yet stuck on a dog? Priceless. :) But it was fun while it lasted, and well worth the try.


@moderator , please lock this thread for me will you!

The thing is, we all process information through the lens of how it affects us, and those we care about.   I think there are likely a response or two that weren't in line with what you wanted, but when you ask questions, sometimes people will focus upon that which  resonates with them.   This is a discussion.   No reason to feel slighted or misunderstood, imo.   I urge you to let your thread flow, and perhaps you and me and all of us will learn something which we didn't anticipate.   

Cheers