Psychiatry Pseudoscience?

[Karl12]

Because they can work.

Hi mate I appreciate the reply and do realise there are subjective (and sincere) testimonies out there - on the whole though I would say the situation with 'mental health' in places like the UK has never been so dire - basically whatever they have been doing (or prescribing) for the last thirty years is simply not working and has resulted in utter disaster.

Did you check out the content in the first two posts concerning the absolute lack of objective evidence for the whole field of 'psychiatry'?

Not to mention the colossal financial incentives for pharma cartels involving the mass prescribing of extremely powerful psychotropic drugs to children?

Cheers.

[quintessentone]

It appears in a 2018 study that the drugs do work. So, what happened from 2018 to now that has caused them to stop working? Could it be that 80% of patients stop taking these drugs after a time? Could it be societal stresses getting worse and worse for regular people?
 

“Depression is the single largest contributor to global disability that we have – a massive challenge for humankind,” said John Geddes, professor of epidemiological psychiatry at Oxford University. It affects around 350 million people worldwide and instances rose almost 20% from 2005-2015.
“Antidepressants are an effective tool for depression. Untreated depression is a huge problem because of the burden to society,” said Andrea Cipriani of the NIHR Oxford Health Biomedical Research Centre, who led the study.
------

The debate over antidepressants has unfortunately often been ideological, said Cipriani. Some doctors and patients have doubts over whether they work at all and point to the big placebo effect – in trials, those given dummy pills also improve to some degree. Some people suspect drug companies of fiddling trial results. Some patients simply do not want to take pills for a mental health condition.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018...tudy-shows

[Sirius]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFtsHf1lVI4

[Ray1990]

Hi mate I appreciate the reply and do realise there are subjective (and sincere) testimonies out there - on the whole though I would say the situation with 'mental health' in places like the UK has never been so dire - basically whatever they have been doing (or prescribing) for the last thirty years is simply not working and has resulted in utter disaster.

Did you check out the content in the first two posts concerning the absolute lack of objective evidence for the whole field of 'psychiatry'?

Not to mention the colossal financial incentives for pharma cartels involving the mass prescribing of extremely powerful psychotropic drugs to children?

Cheers.

I did check them out months ago, briefly watched the first video again and remembered it was full of sound bites and comments that could serve as ultimatums but are ultimately taken out of context.

I haven't checked my older posts but I highly suspect I wrote about chemicals, long story short how can the brain be chemically tested without massively intrusive procedures?

Psychiatry is a specialised field and puts into practice the 'theories' of psychology. Many of those theories are fairly sound and based on volumes of work, understanding and evidence.

The word psychotropic doesn't really mean much to me personally, I've got a bunch of stuff in my kitchen that has psychotropic properties and most people have a cup or two of something that has psychotropic effects every day.

Not to mention the colossal financial incentives for pharma cartels involving the mass prescribing of extremely powerful psychotropic drugs to children?

Define hard/powerful psychotropic drugs?

I've never met a parent (yet) who'll pay £1000's for their kids drugs if they weren't needed. A diagnosis for what I would class as the harder stuff can take upto a decade in the UK, a discerning parent could pay privately but that's expensive and so are the drugs if they get the diagnosis.

Generic issues get generic drugs. Generic drugs are cheap. Could an evil international consortium profit from cheap generic drugs? Sure, but they'd do a damn sight better convincing idiots that this 800% more expensive paracetamol blend are much better than the generic ones you normally buy (from us) for a few pence per pill.

As a conspiracy it doesn't appeal to me since the long game of pushing hard drugs is too much of a gamble compared to a bit of lobbying and the registering of patents.

All that said, yes. Pills are pushed too easily. I'd struggle to question the morality of my (or any) GP for prescribing beta blockers or SSRIs to a kid when alternatives are seemingly few and far between though.

[Karl12]

https://corbettreport.com/dissent-into-madness/

Consolidated quotes - insanely true.

[GENERAL EYES]

Sure.   I know 4 schizophrenics.   I know that with one of them, if she is off her risperidone she is tormented by demons.  Day and night nonstop.  If she's on the risperidone, it all stops.  Psychiatry may not fully understand schizophrenia or how the medicines work, but they do work.  I'd call that anecdotal evidence that psychiatry is not pseudoscience.

I'm a high functioning schizoprenic as well with a few trauma comorbities, and Risperidone took over when the Haloperidol failed. 

I still have minor symptoms, but an extra dose prevents the onset from becoming a full blown episode.   

It's easier to ignore the voices and abstain from certain thought trains as the years go by and I stay away from certain influences and certain types of environments and people.

I have had greater success with being more in control of my environment and interactions with others (unknown variables) and self isolating in nature with a heavy dose of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

I've seen several psychiatrists over 30 years, and the majority just want to use me as a lab rat for whatever "new drug" has come out of the lab, and I'm grateful this time around that my last two psychiatrist have actually LISTENED to me instead of just pulling out a script pad for the lastest fad.

My current Dr. tried to be helpful and perscribe an antidepressant (they've never worked for me) just because I was grieving the death of my stepfather recently, and backed off when I explained I wasn't really there to get more drugs, and was having greater success with proper diet and suppliments (Omega 3 in particular) but Psychiatrists usually think it's a chemical imbalance and will drug you to the point of drooling if you allow them and aren't informed about your circumstances and symptoms and triggers.

For many, a "magic pill" works wonders, and for others, the side effects of an improper regimine can be worse than the psychological manifestations that drove you to seek help in the first place.  I won't get into how many near death scenarios I've had with some of the drugs I've been perscribed over the years, one reason I try to keep my scripts down to two or less....right now it's just an anti-psychotic and an anti-anxiety drug, and I'd like to keep it that way.

I agree we have a long way to go before we understand the ins and outs of the mystery of the brain, but I doubt just throwing pill after pill  after pill is the solution.

[greymagick]

Psychiatry isn't entirely a huge scam, since there are disorders like anxiety, depression, bipolar, obsessive-compulsive and attention-deficit etc.  The scam is in their biochemical imbalance theories, which lead to a perfect hand-in-glove model with Big Pharma which leads to dangerous and toxic medications, which cause more harm than good, with their side effects, adverse reactions and withdrawal symptoms.

Most psychiatric conditions can be treated with various psychological treatments like talk therapy, psychedelics and cognitive behavioral therapy.  Drugs like Prozac and Seroquel might as well be just thrown in the garbage, and kept there indefinitely...

[quintessentone]

Psychiatry isn't entirely a huge scam, since there are disorders like anxiety, depression, bipolar, obsessive-compulsive and attention-deficit etc.  The scam is in their biochemical imbalance theories, which lead to a perfect hand-in-glove model with Big Pharma which leads to dangerous and toxic medications, which cause more harm than good, with their side effects, adverse reactions and withdrawal symptoms.

Most psychiatric conditions can be treated with various psychological treatments like talk therapy, psychedelics and cognitive behavioral therapy.  Drugs like Prozac and Seroquel might as well be just thrown in the garbage, and kept there indefinitely...

The future of treating mental illnesses may lie in genetic testing and targeted gene treatment, just like they are working on for cancer.

AI:

"Gene therapy is an emerging field that holds potential for treating mental illnesses by targeting the genetic factors that contribute to these conditions.Understanding Gene Therapy in PsychiatryGene therapy involves modifying or manipulating genes to treat or prevent diseases. In the context of mental illness, this approach aims to address the underlying genetic predispositions that may contribute to conditions such as depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder. While traditional psychiatric treatments often rely on medications that may not work for everyone, gene therapy offers a more personalized approach by potentially correcting or compensating for genetic abnormalities.Current Research and Developments

1. Genetic Insights: Research has shown that psychiatric conditions are influenced by a complex interplay of genetic, environmental, and psychological factors. For instance, certain genetic variations can affect how individuals respond to medications, leading to the development of personalized treatment plans based on genetic testing. 
   
   
   
2. Pharmacogenomics: This field studies how genes affect a person's response to drugs, allowing for tailored medication strategies that can improve treatment outcomes. Genetic testing can help predict which medications will be most effective for a patient, reducing the trial-and-error approach commonly used in psychiatry. 
   
   
   
3. Potential Applications: While gene therapy for mental illness is still largely in the research phase, it has the potential to address specific genetic mutations associated with certain disorders. For example, targeting genes involved in neurotransmitter regulation could lead to new treatments for conditions like depression and anxiety. 
   
   
   
4. 2 Sources
   

Challenges and Ethical Considerations

• Complexity of Mental Illness: Mental health disorders are multifactorial, meaning they arise from a combination of genetic, environmental, and lifestyle factors. This complexity makes it challenging to develop effective gene therapies that can address all contributing factors. 
  
  
  
• Ethical Implications: The use of gene therapy raises ethical questions regarding consent, potential long-term effects, and the implications of altering genetic material. It is crucial to consider the psychological impact on patients and their families, especially in the context of mental health. 
  
  
  
• 2 Sources
  

ConclusionGene therapy represents a promising frontier in the treatment of mental illness, with the potential to revolutionize how these conditions are understood and managed. As research continues to advance, it may lead to more effective and personalized treatment options for individuals suffering from mental health disorders. However, ongoing studies and ethical discussions are essential to navigate the complexities and implications of this innovative approach."

[SurferSoul]

I think it’s worth pointing out that we build tolerance to drugs/chemicals far quicker than most people realise. We subjected to a veritable chemical soup through modern lifestyles, such as the things we consume in food/drink and environmental pollutants we are hardly even aware of. On top of this our bodies produce of chemicals/compounds in an effort to find equilibrium, which is also greatly impacted by our lifestyles. Things like lack of sleep, to much stress, lack of exercise, or doing to much of something or to little of something else. All this contributes to our general health and feelings of well being or lack there of. 
This is further compounded by our individual chemistry and genetic makeup, making it nearly impossible to do a “one size fits all” approach with prescribing drugs. 



I think the point that is missed in psychiatry is our body/brains natural ability to produce the drugs prescribed given half a chance and in the right proportion for us as individuals. 
Also the link between our beliefs and our mental/physical health. The book the biology of belief covers this particular aspect very well. 


Great thread and great contributing posts, I’ll have a proper read before making any further contributions, but thought it’s worth pointing out the above as a basis to expand upon if anyone cares.

[quintessentone]

I think it’s worth pointing out that we build tolerance to drugs/chemicals far quicker than most people realise. We subjected to a veritable chemical soup through modern lifestyles, such as the things we consume in food/drink and environmental pollutants we are hardly even aware of. On top of this our bodies produce of chemicals/compounds in an effort to find equilibrium, which is also greatly impacted by our lifestyles. Things like lack of sleep, to much stress, lack of exercise, or doing to much of something or to little of something else. All this contributes to our general health and feelings of well being or lack there of. 
This is further compounded by our individual chemistry and genetic makeup, making it nearly impossible to do a “one size fits all” approach with prescribing drugs. 



I think the point that is missed in psychiatry is our body/brains natural ability to produce the drugs prescribed given half a chance and in the right proportion for us as individuals. 
Also the link between our beliefs and our mental/physical health. The book the biology of belief covers this particular aspect very well. 


Great thread and great contributing posts, I’ll have a proper read before making any further contributions, but thought it’s worth pointing out the above as a basis to expand upon if anyone cares.

I am curious SurferSoul what you (and others here on this thread) think of RFK Jr.'s approach to mental illness treatment. I think, why not?, it can't hurt and may actually help some people in spiritual ways. In my searching through the internet, I also say back in the old days that hospitals had sun rooms where they would take patients daily - not any more.

---------------

"RFK Jr.’s 18th-Century Approach to Mental Health Sparks Debate"

"Rather than expanding access to psychiatric medications or traditional therapy, Kennedy envisions rural retreats where individuals struggling with addiction or mental illness can recover through farming, manual labor, and a “natural” lifestyle. 
 This approach is rooted in the late 18th-century concept of “moral treatment,” pioneered by figures like Quaker William Tuke in England and French physician Philippe Pinel. Their model emphasized humane care, dignity, and the therapeutic value of nature and work — radically different from the harsh asylums of their era."

"A 2019 review found little evidence that modern “care farms” significantly improve treatment outcomes for depression, anxiety, or addiction. Today, farm-based rehabilitation is often marketed as a luxury service, combining nature exposure with psychiatric support-an approach not accessible to most Americans."

https://stewardshipreport.org/rfk-jr-s-18th-century-approach-to-mental-health-sparks-debate/