A car has exploded near a fertility clinic in Palm Springs, California

[sahgwa]

 

[sahgwa]

I think if the intention were to take lives (excluding "unborn"), he'd have chosen a day when the clinic was open.

As for theism, the spoken-word transcript doesn't render the tone, in which "God" is more an oath than an invocation. From the manifesto pdf:

[Image: https://denyignorance.com/uploader/image...-26-26.png]

They may as well just off themselves. Not involve other people. 

 If they stood back for . I dunno. 5 more years. maybe some deep meditation would do the job instead. 

Life can be suffering but life can be what you make it. 

These beings are too young but they are jumping to (emotional) conclusions again.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

Your posts are fascinating to read, generally including a jump to conclusions game in regards to political bias.

That said, I chose your post to hit reply to.

What sparks my engine in this thread is the term 'anti natalist' 

Being a (who the hell knows semi Luciferian but conservative loving Thelemite libertarian you love labels don't you?, individual, I am a) huge Thomas Ligotti fan and his fictional and very depressive works are where the term 'anti natalism' was largely introduced to the public.

I found out later that Ligotti's nonfiction essay Conspiracy Against the Human Race was a big inspiration to the show True Detective.

I mostly found out about Ligotti  due to being a (mouth breathing incel just kidding) huge HP Lovecraft fan.

That said, the fact that idiotic hyper bias political idiots are using what is supposed to be outsider fiction and something to transcend the idiocy of humanity , into a depressive tool to kill other human beings, saddens me.

Being a "who the hell knows semi Luciferian but conservative loving Thelemite libertarian" gives me an amalgamated perspective. 

And just go with "discordian" if you're at a loss for labels, because you can "paradigm shift" into any form you want and use it for your often ironic commentary. 

Thelema has too much initiation bullshit for me. Grades are like a reward for being driven by a need for acceptance, which seems like the opposite of all their true will under love crap.

It's too close to the other Melrose Blvd Religion, Scientology.  Which makes sense, with Hubbard being a Thelemite. Only his version added polygraph tests and a person you pay to yell at you until you admit all your problems. Which is not at all like psychology.

And speaking of Discordian, you've heard of The Church of Euthanasia, right? That is the other way to do antinatalism. The entire premise is essentially "kill yourself for overpopulation" but it lacks a certain seriousness about it. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Euthanasia

The church promotes its environmental views. They also utilize sermons, art performances, public demonstrations, culture jamming, music, publicity stunts, and direct action to promote their idea of Earth's unsustainable population. They consider their methods similar to those of the Dadaist movement,[sup][10][/sup] finding the modern world so absurd that the means needed to spread their message to the public must be absurd themselves. The Church of Euthanasia is also notorious for its conflicts with anti-abortion Christian activists.[sup][11][/sup] The group's slogans include "Save the Planet, Kill Yourself", "Six Billion Humans Can't Be Wrong", and "Eat a Queer Fetus for Jesus".

 "Eat a queer fetus for Jesus" is not the type of dark humor you find in this Twentynine Palms guy's suicide manifesto.

And that's why I say INCEL, because he didn't adopt the essence of the deliberately trollish "please stop breeding" message that antinatalists usually do. Which is more boringly about dwindling resources and overpopulation, than it is anything else.

Seems like his version was just a place for underlying motives to land.

[sahgwa]

Being a "who the hell knows semi Luciferian but conservative loving Thelemite libertarian" gives me an amalgamated perspective. 

And just go with "discordian" if you're at a loss for labels, because you can "paradigm shift" into any form you want and use it for your often ironic commentary. 

Thelema has too much initiation bullshit for me. Grades are like a reward for being driven by a need for acceptance, which seems like the opposite of all their true will under love crap.

It's too close to the other Melrose Blvd Religion, Scientology.  Which makes sense, with Hubbard being a Thelemite. Only his version added polygraph tests and a person you pay to yell at you until you admit all your problems. Which is not at all like psychology.

And speaking of Discordian, you've heard of The Church of Euthanasia, right? That is the other way to do antinatalism. The entire premise is essentially "kill yourself for overpopulation" but it lacks a certain seriousness about it. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Euthanasia

I mean "Eat a queer fetus for Jesus" is not the type of dark humor you find in this Twentynine Palms guy's suicide manifesto.

And that's why I say INCEL, because he didn't adopt the essence of the deliberately trollish "please stop breeding" message that antinatalists usually do. Which is more boringly about dwindling resources and overpopulation, than it is anything else.

Seems like his version was just a place for underlying motives to land.

Discordian is a good one. 

Gradework in Thelema is not about 'acceptance' and 'reward' . Gradework is having discipline to show true inner evolution and hard work in regards to patience, fortitude, meditation, yoga, asana, pranayama, astral skrying/divination, travel, balance, and ultimately improvement at being a human.   Hubbard was never a Thelemite, he was a conman that 'worked over' Jack Parsons, who, by the way Crowley called an idiotic lout.  People on here obviously don't have an internal view, and dont do the Work , nor the Research and just spout off nonsense, and I have to keep correcting it.  Now back on track- 

If one was serious about antinatalism they would actually make everyone depressed instead of killing people. 

Which brings me back to Thelema actually. One of our mottos is 'Light Life Love and Liberty' 
If you have Love, and this is Compassion and love for God. Then you don't want to end life. You want to celebrate Life, and thus Liberty and to have Love in creation.
The Fascinating thing about Thelema is it's not a fully Left Hand Path nor a fully Right Hand Path religion.  Like a true human being, it is both.
Don't ignore the Shadow, integrate it and sublimate and conquer it. 
In order to be a rounded and functional human being. 

This little boy was not rounded nor functional.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

Whatever it is. Sorry for generalized protection upon Thelema.

Can I still say Crowley was a hypocritical wife-beating fruitcake deserving of no one's reverence?

I know what it is. People rave about the personal transformation of finding their true will under love.  It's always like "magick" and "chakras" and "energies" and "godhead" and "manifested will" all this ridiculous abstract shit that makes me not care anymore. Especially when it gets into "I can control wave collapse" stuff.  I thought that's what positive thinking power and going out and doing stuff was for. 

But then I realized you can do yoga, meditate, eat healthy, and practice compassion without subscribing to any ridiculous parattling from a hopeless drug addict. And I can go sit in a freaking temple in Egypt and talk to a  voice in my head too. I think the new owner of ATS does that from what I gather. 

But Crowley found the secret of all prophethood, didn't he?

 [⚠️ Don't do the above unless you want something talking to you for the rest of your life] 

A semi-lucid channelling of the collective unconscious so it can project unto you the answer your mind is most programmed to hear.  

Even that personal Aiwass is "right beneath the skin."

Originally I posted the song "Papercut" here, but decided afterwards this song is better for a Tulpa. The lyric quote doesnt work anymore though, but it's a better song. 

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

One more as I've already completely derailed this thread... 

Of course the non-skeptical view of that makes for better everything... and if it works for people, my opinion shouldn't matter. 






That Irish guy's quote about music makers and dreamers... but you just really have to believe.

[sahgwa]

Whatever it is. Sorry for generalized protection upon Thelema.

Can I still say Crowley was a hypocritical wife-beating fruitcake deserving of no one's reverence?

I know what it is. People rave about the personal transformation of finding their true will under love.  It's always like "magick" and "chakras" and "energies" and "godhead" and "manifested will" all this ridiculous abstract shit that makes me not care anymore. Especially when it gets into "I can control wave collapse" stuff.  I thought that's what positive thinking power and going out and doing stuff was for. 

But then I realized you can do yoga, meditate, eat healthy, and practice compassion without subscribing to any ridiculous parattling from a hopeless drug addict. And I can go sit in a freaking temple in Egypt and talk to a  voice in my head too. I think the new owner of ATS does that from what I gather. 

But Crowley found the secret of all prophethood, didn't he?

 [⚠️ Don't do the above unless you want something talking to you for the rest of your life] 

A semi-lucid channelling of the collective unconscious so it can project unto you the answer your mind is most programmed to hear.  

Even that personal Aiwass is "right beneath the skin."

Originally I posted the song "Papercut" here, but decided afterwards this song is better for a Tulpa. The lyric quote doesnt work anymore though, but it's a better song. 

[Video: https://youtu.be/I415vfU-ukw?si=j6Nn7MuwuNgU2Im9]

I appreciate your dialogue and respect your opinion that Crowley created a tulpa. I am more of the mind that we all do really have Higher Selves.  We are in this tiny 3d world and once you get outside of time, into the astral realm and beyond into the quantum field, we have many selves, and why wouldn't a Higher Self want to aid it's lower parts?
It's like you wanting to stay fit and aid your heart, it's part of you ,the larger you. 

Back to the topic again, it's interesting to read Ligotti's views on antinatalism, because he gets the question we would all ask, all the time, 'if it's so bad why don't you off yourself? ' 
That is an option, but once you are alive, you have a few choices, kill yourself, stay alive and bitch about it, and stay alive and try and enjoy it.
I think he has chosen option 2.
This is an interesting discussion about the 'end games' of anti natalists

https://www.ligotti.net/showthread.php?t=10095

Buddhists view all life as suffering, but they strive to get to total clarity and nonattachment to get to some pure state of essentially, nonbeing. Obviously a tonne of varying formats of Buddhism.
I chose option 3, stay alive and try to enjoy it.
Life is a gift, and a privilege, it is what we make of it.

[sahgwa]

We can view this sad attack as a suicide bombing

https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/...alifornia/


I find the phrase 'nihilistic ideations' interesting. 
 The suspect stated in writings or recordings that he was against bringing people into the world against their will, according to law enforcement sources familiar with the investigation.
The bomb used has been identified as a large vehicle-borne improvised explosive device and its blast could be felt more than a mile away from the blast zone
 "I received a call saying there was a massive explosion that destroyed a couple of our buildings. My biggest concern was obviously my staff and the embryos we have in storage," said Dr. Maher Abdallah, the clinic's director. "Fortunately for us, our staff was unharmed and the IVF lab is intact, untouched, unharmed. The embryos are safe." 
"We were able to save all of the embryos at this facility," Davis added. "Good guys, 1, bad guys, 0."  
The clinic was expected to reopen on Monday, but late Sunday Dr. Abdallah said that their clinic is "completely obliterated" and that the "surgery center building is damaged." They will instead have to see patients at a temporary location in Palm Desert through at least Monday.


It does take skill to build that kind of large bomb.  Shame he couldn't use his skill on something else. 

I am glad it seems only he suffered from the attack.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

I am more of the mind that we all do really have Higher Selves.  We are in this tiny 3d world and once you get outside of time, into the astral realm and beyond into the quantum field, we have many selves, and why wouldn't a Higher Self want to aid it's lower parts?

Likewise, I respect the Atman-Brahman of higher infinite selves.  With the multiverse + non dualism its very Advaita-like. Somewhere under the umbrella of Dharmakaya. West should go East more. 

This is an interesting discussion about the 'end games' of anti natalists.

To keep it out East, Theosophy be damned. 

I always thought antinatalism was more a troll device for environmentalism.  Which means it has a collective underlying endgame in line with the feared goals of The WEF. Sustainability + population reduction + eating ze bugs. 

But I think the endgames for most that adopt these views are more geared towards Vamachara.  Like instead of freaking out the locals by covering oneself in ash and doing things in a cemetery, they freak people out with their extreme views on the birthrate and expressions therein. Like a lite version of the more committed Aghori.  

That's why antinatalists typically have trollish Church of Euthanasia slogans like "Save The Planet, Kill Yourself!"  Or "Eat a queer fetus for Jesus." 

Like an Aghori it might be "personal transformation through transgression." E.g. deriving spiritual oneness from doing things that shock and offend everyone. 

It generally doesn't progress to violent extremism, but if Sikh militants can blow up a 747, anything is possible.

[sahgwa]

Likewise, I respect the Atman-Brahman of higher infinite selves.  With the multiverse + non dualism its very Advaita-like. Somewhere under the umbrella of Dharmakaya. West should go East more. 

To keep it out East, Theosophy be damned. 

I always thought antinatalism was more a troll device for environmentalism.  Which means it has a collective underlying endgame in line with the feared goals of The WEF. Sustainability + population reduction + eating ze bugs. 

But I think the endgames for most that adopt these views are more geared towards Vamachara.  Like instead of freaking out the locals by covering oneself in ash and doing things in a cemetery, they freak people out with their extreme views on the birthrate and expressions therein. Like a lite version of the more committed Aghori.  

That's why antinatalists typically have trollish Church of Euthanasia slogans like "Save The Planet, Kill Yourself!"  Or "Eat a queer fetus for Jesus." 

Like an Aghori it might be "personal transformation through transgression." E.g. deriving spiritual oneness from doing things that shock and offend everyone. 

It generally doesn't progress to violent extremism, but if Sikh militants can blow up a 747, anything is possible.

I'm very into Advaita and I think if you take Thelema to it's logical conclusion you end up somewhere in a Daoist harmonic Advaitan flow. The old Crow himself said all Opposites are to be Reconciled into 1.  0=2 means everything unites after reconciliation, there is no 2. 

That said, to wish you weren't given birth to, is more of a simplistic Buddhist mindset.  

I don't think antinatalism started with anything about vegans or environment, but it is a convenient culling , mind control, and depressive mechanic for the Rulers to latch on to , to make people more into their death cult, which falsely claims humans can only be a cancer on the planet and so should all die (minus themselves of course). 

Like most fringe ideas, antinatalism starts as an aesthetic and philosophical choice in literature of the weird, then becomes co-opted by the mainstream, and the output fallout feedback is usually some kid with the wrong idea doing the wrong thing.