It's time to DEMOTE a few U.S. states

[andy06shake]

If those "States" become "Territories", the economies might remain the same. Why would the economies change?    

If you reduce the states to territories.

Do you really imagine the people are going to wish to remain part of the union?

They are going to wish to secede...

And if they do that, it would indeed drastically change and reduce your nation's GDP and economy.

[andy06shake]

Eastern WA and eastern OR are already trying to leave. Look up "Greater Idaho".

If you look at the county by county election results from '24, there are no "blue states"... just blue counties surrounding large metro areas.

In no way do I want a civil war. Those from ATS will remember me as a combat USAF veteran and retiree. I have seen war very close up.

Right now, in those supposed "blue states", you have a ruling class established in the cities telling rural folks how to live. Rural areas have zero voice in those states. Many counties in southwest Virginia, are considering leaving to join WV. Montani Semper Liberi. I no longer live there, but I am a native Mountaineer... the folks at home would love to have them.

If you give those people living in "red counties" in those "blue states" a chance to bolt for greener pastures... those Territories would be comprised of nothing more than a few metro areas.

Call it an "administrative civil war". That's all it would be.

Those blue counties gave away their 2nd Amendment rights to the leftists. Maybe that wasn't a great idea.

You get the picture.

Again, if you demote the states of California, Washington, and Oregon to US territories.

I think the picture would look like secession, civil war, and recession.

It would break your nation's back.

And possibly end your countries 250 year experiment with democracy.

Not a picture I would ever wish to see painted...

[madmac5150]

Again, if you demote the states of California, Washington, and Oregon to US territories.

I think the picture would look like secession, civil war, and recession.

It would break your nation's back.

And possibly end your countries 250 year experiment with democracy.

Not a picture I would ever wish to see painted...

The only thing that would be left of those territories, if the "red counties" all left...

The Peoples Republic of SW California

The Peoples Republic of San Francisco

Greater Communist Portland

The Peoples Republic of Seattle-Tacoma

The Peoples Republic of Northern Virginia and the slums of D.C (the former US Capitol)

The Democratic Peoples Republic of Chicago (former home of an NFL team)

The Communist State of Minneapolis

Soviet New York and Democrat Socialist New England Republic (I am curious to see a hammer and sickle on a pride flag... )

The Soviet Colonies of Denver and Boulder

You get the idea.

Atlas could simply shrug them all off.

[andy06shake]

The only thing that would be left of those territories, if the "red counties" all left...

The Peoples Republic of SW California

The Peoples Republic of San Francisco

Greater Communist Portland

The Peoples Republic of Seattle-Tacoma

The Peoples Republic of Northern Virginia and the slums of D.C (the former US Capitol)

The Democratic Peoples Republic of Chicago (former home of an NFL team)

The Communist State of Minneapolis

Soviet New York and Democrat Socialist New England Republic (I am curious to see a hammer and sickle on a pride flag... )

The Soviet Colonies of Denver and Boulder

You get the idea.

Atlas could simply shrug them all off.

I get that thats inflammatory political fantasy and not a realistic scenario. 

Stripping voting rights from entire groups of people based on where they live and the way they vote is apt to end poorly, imho...

And thats what would happen if you start turning states into territories.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

 

The Central Valley joins an independent Califonia over their dead  heat stroke bodies.  IE and Orange County would be hard to convince too. 

So Coastal California loses Farm/Oil/Meth Country but keeps most of Wine and Weed Country.. And keeps Silicon Valley and 35% of oil production. 

Kern County (South part of Central Valley) has most of it.. Agriculture and 65% of Oil defects..

But we keep 85% the total economic output on that map with a 3.2 trillion GDP advantage. 

CA is EVIL logic:

I want to demote the largest contributor to our economy with a GDP on par with The UK and per capita Income on par with Ireland because they are over 60% left-leaning and do things with their state's rights I don't like. 

And their politicians oppose the president because their constituents oppose the president - like a representative government should.

[DennisR6]

I have heard calls for a "National Divorce" of sorts... "let's punt the socialist states out" (from the right) or "let's split to form our own utopian socialist society" (from the left). Probably not a great idea. If we were to kick CA, OR, and WA out of our union... they would quickly invite the Chinese Communists in to their little party.

I think a better idea (if it can be done at all) would be to demote those rogue states to U.S. territories.

The recent "elections" in California are a prime example of socialist rule. They have crafted their system to exclude anyone that doesn't play by their rules. Spencer Pratt was robbed of a chance to become mayor. People the voted for Mr. Pratt have been robbed of their rights to vote. Steve Hilton only survived the governor's race, because of the unwanted attention that the L.A. race had focused on the obvious chicanery. If California cannot secure a simple mayoral election, why the hell should we trust them in any national election?

What about all of those Constitution loving Californian's... the people that this would hurt the worst? They would suddenly have new options... conservative counties in the Territory of California could immediately petition to join a neighboring U.S State. The eastern parts of the Territories of Oregon and Washington could do the same.

Certainly the socialists will scream about a lack of representation... they still get seats in Congress, they can still act out their theatrics and get their likes on social media... that's all they care about. They just can't vote on anything. They won't allow their own citizens to have free voting rights, why should they get voting rights in national policy?

We could also tax those territorial governments at the same rates as they tax their citizenry. Tax them into the same submission that, they choose to inflict on their own "voters".

We can secure our rights to those Territories with military force, when needed. No Chinese or other foreign actors would be permitted a foothold on our territorial lands.

I think governments the states of CA, WA, OR, NY, MI, MN, DE, VA, IL, ME, VT, NC really need a little "time out"... let's sit them in a proverbial corner for awhile.

There are more than enough "red states" to make this happen, if it can be done. The "red counties" in those blue states will quickly jump ship. Isolate the socialists... let them have the urban hellscapes they have built for themselves, but nothing more.

Thoughts?

You could just move, would be far easier for YOU to move then for all of that.

I don't believe this thread was well thought through. Interesting hypothetical to ponder but ultimately would only cause mass chaos and confusion.
Bad combinations IMO. 

I think I would rather live in what you deem a utopia rather then in a cult like state that the people are ok with the top dog robbing the coffers for whatever reason then not ever being allowed to have his finances questioned? Seems sus considering you nor I will ever get such a sweetheart deal. Yet you complain about fraud aka corruption. Make an example of the those in charge.
Like trickle down, I bet you are fond of that concept!

[SteamyAmerican]

States Rights Yo.

Civil War was a movie btw, not a reality.

Americans have a lot more in common than TPTB would have you believe.

[madmac5150]

I get that thats inflammatory political fantasy and not a realistic scenario. 

Stripping voting rights from entire groups of people based on where they live and the way they vote is apt to end poorly, imho...

And thats what would happen if you start turning states into territories.

I am not suggesting that the citizens lose their rights to vote. They can vote all they want. In blue counties they vote A LOT!

What I am saying, is to strip away their national representation.

These municipalities have denied their own citizens voices, in a quest to remain forever in power. Los Angeles is an absolute crap show. US citizens are denied services in favor of illegal immigrants. US citizens have fewer rights in Los Angeles, than criminals do. Poor neighborhoods are kept poor by keeping them uneducated, then polarized by constant talking points blaming "racism" and "straight white conservatives" for all of their community's issues. The rich stay rich by using their wealth to portray themselves as "saviors of democracy" and "the voice of reason" as they pilfer everything in sight.

How much money have all of these Democrats (and a few Republicans as well) "earned", by selling out to the highest bidder.

Our 250 year experiment hasn't failed at all... where it has been allowed to flourish. The only thing we failed at, was trusting our media to keep our government in line. They are getting rich, by pushing propaganda from one side alone... they claim to be the great voice of reason, while getting paid to shill endlessly.

Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried... because only those in charge, or in good standing are allowed to prosper. The rest get to starve. They get imprisoned or murdered for daring to speak out. This has already happened here, under the Biden regime. How many people did real prison time, for simply supporting President Trump? I never thought I would see that happen in our incredible Constitutional Republic (not a democracy)... yet it did. The media applauded.

This is vile. This is disgusting. Everyone who supported those draconian measures to silence the free speech of American citizens... they should all bow in shame.

2020 was quite the wake-up call. The rest of us watched while these "blue states" denied all but those in power, of all of their Constitutional rights. The media championed all of it. Sickening.

I am not a Republican, I am an independent conservative. I served my country for more than 20 years. I took an oath to "Support and Defend the Constitution from ALL enemies... foreign and domestic"... I did not pledge an oath to ANY government, nor has any other member of the military actually pledged fealty to the government. We pledge ultimate fealty to the Constitution... which is why we obey the orders of those appointed by the Constitution to govern us.

Elected officials also take this oath. Very few seem to pay it any mind, and view it only as an obstacle to their power and wealth. Any elected official that seeks to destroy this Constitution, or denies any citizenry rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, should be impeached and punished by flogging. Televised.

If the California "vote counters" continually rig elections, they should absolutely be excluded from deciding national elections. The same goes for the rest of the little socialist enclaves in any of the "Peoples Democracies" that seek to alter national policy to serve the wealthy socialists that run these places... or their Chinese masters. Enough is enough. Fire the kleptocrats in charge, return to common sense voting laws, or go scream in the corners by yourselves.

This 250 year old Constitutional Republic (again, not a democracy) isn't in any danger of failing. To be sure, we got some cancer... and socialism is just that... Cancers can be excised, and usually go away if kept from spreading.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

What I am saying, is to strip away their national representation.

Oh yeah, that makes America a more Representative Republic...   Strip the national representation from all the places that are too far left.  Fuck their elected representative government if it deemed too "socialist"...

 That's NO LONGER AMERICA. Its over if that is populism now. 

But, lets ask EVIL Google anyway. 

Question:  What type of government argues that states that are too close to socialists should be stripped to their National representation? 

Answer: 

An argument that subnational units (like states or provinces) should have their political representation stripped because their politics lean too close to socialism is characteristic of authoritarian, ultra-nationalist, or fascist governance, as well as extreme forms of unitary state centralization.

NOPE!

[madmac5150]

You could just move, would be far easier for YOU to move then for all of that.

I don't believe this thread was well thought through. Interesting hypothetical to ponder but ultimately would only cause mass chaos and confusion.
Bad combinations IMO. 

I think I would rather live in what you deem a utopia rather then in a cult like state that the people are ok with the top dog robbing the coffers for whatever reason then not ever being allowed to have his finances questioned? Seems sus considering you nor I will ever get such a sweetheart deal. Yet you complain about fraud aka corruption. Make an example of the those in charge.
Like trickle down, I bet you are fond of that concept!

I may be retired, but I still take my oath to the Constitution very seriously. I already live in a deep red area... I have zero reason to move. When the rest of us lose our right to self-determination by socialist idiots in New York and California, well we have a right to have that grievance heard! That is the core principle of our freedoms... and the rights of the States.

West Virginia was born of this right to self-determination... northern/western Virginians did not want slavery, yet the slave hungry Democrat Virginia government didn't agree. They were granted statehood by a Republican... to end Democrat slavery in what is now WV.

There is absolutely precedent.

Why should I, in Kentucky, be required by law to accept the mutilation of our children... to appease the latest celebrity cause from the socialist left?