IdeomotorPrisoner v DBCowboy : Trump v2... Fascist?

[Maxmars]

Greetings...

A debate will begin ...

IdeomotorPrisoner has a proposition to make...

"Yes, it's fair to call the second Trump Administration fascist."

The use of the term "fascism" and "fascist" has riled many a member...
but is it fair idea to throw around those words when describing the current
U.S. Administration...?

DBCowboy will refuse the proposition...

Upon the first posting, this debate will proceed as the standard DI debate rules are set out.

The fighters are ready...

"Chomping at the bit" in fact...

Good luck, and a weather eye to each of our fighting friends...

The clock starts ticking after you post...

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

Attempt #3


"One of the things that we see happening today is a sort of a sleepwalking into dictatorship in the United States." - Liz Cheney

So let's discuss that!

First the definition:

Fascism 

 A populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition.

Quoted from Google AI are the facets of fascism, and following that is my argument for how The Second Trump Administration is on a spectrum using those tactics.

Dictatorial leadership 

Characterized by a single, all-powerful dictatorial leader, often with a cult of personality.

A cult of personality like a legion of followers that mostly hang on his every tweet, see no wrong is what he says/does, and defend his actions/greatness at all costs?

No, not happening at all.

He still gets initially checked by lower courts but has the highest court in his back pocket, which almost always sides with his increasing autocracy and power.

I honestly feel he wants to be Vladamir Putin more than Thomas Jefferson.

Extreme nationalism

Promotes aggressive nationalism, national unity, and often a belief in a national or racial superiority.

The racial shit is overtly dead. Unless you're affirmative action, a Smithsonian display, DEI, or put too much emphasis on correcting America's long history of intolerance and bigotry.

Thou shalt not remindeth America of its past transgressions! 

Aggressive nationalism can be seen in heavy-handed immigration enforcement, which is beyond anything employed in modern American history. It's done to send a message most than enforce borders.  Its deliberate intimidating. 

Obama had deportation numbers well beyond that of Trump, it just wasn't an issue because he didnt defer to public raids that traumatized their children. 

There is a humility lost in his theater.

Make America Great Again is a belief of national superiority first and foremost. Nationalism for the true Americans.  A patriotic nationalism that exalts isolationism and protectionism as well. America only needs America.  Just like many dictatorships that came before. 

"True American" is a defice for apolitical ICE raids that brilliantly shift the scapegoat to a criminal association and sanitize it of all racial overtones. It is no longer directed against party, nationality, or ethnicity. it refers to legal status.

But It sure as hell captures the same vibe, even without any overt racism.

The majority (75%) being Latino really only reflects the demographic of who is here illegally. Deferring to law shields it against being racist in any way. 

Militarism

Glorifies military power and strength as a central part of society and government.

Jesus Freaking Christ.. Define Major Pete Hegseth, AKA "This man's resestablished military." Go Testosterone, right?

They want to re-establish a warrior ethos, fine. They want to resume Neveda nuke testing to show a type of retro cold war power, and smack around incompetent Venezuala like a cat toying with a retarded mouse. Awesome!

But militarism surely fits. i wish Trump would stop it with this 51st state imperialist trolling, because It's sad. 

Why do need to troll Canada, or need Danish REEs and the inherited Caribou? We just are powerful. We don't need that projected.

i feel like The rebranded DOW is REALLY saying: 

"We just want to do those parades that showcase our super-disciplined soldiers of the highest masculine standard walking alongside missiles and tanks and shit! Like China, Russia, and North Korea!"


Mass mobilization

Actively mobilizes the public through government-organized channels like rallies to create a sense of national unity and enthusiasm for the state and leader.

So that's what the twittering is for! The paragon of irony that is "Truth" Media.

Who needs rallies when viral herds can hang on your every pandering sometimes unintelligible thought?  Who needs those reinforcing "hail the leader" rallies when you can appoint Fox News to your administration 22 times and create America's own Russia Today by default?

Nothing says for profit media cant always align with an administration at every turn possible, and continuously spew out titles like, "Heroic Trump Sends Eskimo Druglord To Western Sahara." (Not a real title)

It may be privately owned, but it's perfect for knowing EXACTLY what the administration thinks.

Social hierarchy

Enforces a rigid social hierarchy and often promotes racist or discriminatory ideologies to create a unifying enemy.

Promotes discriminatory ideology that unifies against national enemies such as; Illegal immigrants, antifascists, LGB but especially T, pro choice, feminists, nonbelievers, all not mentioned radical lefists, and of course all those lazy welfare drains.

The social hierarchy is masked as the recapturing of traditional values, and leans towards the default White Nationalism values of the 50s and early 60s.

Before civil rights inserted new social discourse and LBJ greatly expanded the depression-created social welfare system to address racial inequality. 

Forgive the comparison but Trump 2.0 reminds me of the tenets of White Nationalism, only NOT APPLIED to racial superiority. 

Like, "Lets do the same social ethos, but deem those who are born here legally and dont need financial assistance as the superior people." 

The united colors of the superior class. 

Totalitarian control

Seeks to control and direct all aspects of life through coercion, repression, censorship, and a single political party.

Our constitution does its best to stop that. But the single party thing is there in its attempted veiled form.

He rhetorically purged thd GOP of all moderates. Liz Cheney, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, ALL now traitor RINOs not on the same team. 

He has made thd GOP hostile and immediately dismissive to any future John McCain, who has been posthumously demonized as well. Which is also sad. 

Nothing is going to stop democrats and independents from voting democrat... but calling several foundational beliefs of the party "radical," and classifying it in "enemy of the state" terms is treading towards totalitarian coercion. Creating a with us or against divide in your own party is totalitarian coercion.

Suppression of opposition

Forcefully suppresses all political opposition, often through violence, surveillance, or imprisonment.

What about just an enemies list getting checked off through subsequent court proceedings?

His propaganda is so adept many call them traitors and enemies now. But from another perspective they are political opponents that called him out that are now being retaliated against by an authoritarian regime - under the guise of "cabal of social elites that did it to me first." 

That victim card is old hat. A classic dictorial tactic. 

Really, how many administration's have a wikipedia page titled:

Targeting of political opponents and civil society under the second Trump Administration. (Link temoved)

What about the list of "political opponents who had their secret service revoked?"

That's a long list too!

Other Parallels:

I've said it before, it feels like "Fascism Lite," "Diet Dictator," or even "The Surimi of Hitler" in that he paraphrased and modernized Mein Kampf into something more acceptable for today's consumption.

No genocide. No ACTUAL significant purge (outside his own party). No official State media (though unofficially maybe). But just as much scapegoating and victimhood.  Just as much of "his constant struggle" against entrenched power trying to remove him from public discourse.

The picks of his second administration demonstrates how there is far less room for dissent within his own ranks now. 

Whats a team player vs a synchphant? 

There are many similarities to draw between Trump 2.0 and fascism, even with Hitler specifically. And that's not even getting into the messianic complex and megalomania.

Hitler complained endlessly about being persecuted by a corrupt elite class of social progressives. He implied he was given providence to lead everyone into a new golden age of greatness.

That could line up? Just a little?

Trump might even be more adept. Hitler had the fucking Great Depression at his disposal. Scapegoating Jewish bankers was easy in the 1930s.  Everyone, especially already WWI depressed Germany. 

Example:

The covid recession (that happened under Trump) was the shortest in world history, the inflation (under Biden) was caused by a covid-19 shutdown recovery and a badly timed Russian invasion. The causes were not green policies and immigration. it was a global event. 

But Trump still managed to take that and turn it to an America-specific scapegoat to rally everyone against the undocumented and the woke for supporting it.

He got to narrate Bidens entire term and consistently blame his left-leaning policies for why groceries or gas were so high. Or more ways woke values were destroying America.

Everything built his greatness reclaiming cult of self during the "worst administration ever."   

He got to constantly remind us how that would've never happened with him as president! In true cult(ure) of personality form he proved to the masses that one and one makes three time and again.

Supporters praised god and passed the less-then-lethal ammunition to ICE so they could go get all those people that made milk 5 dollars a gallon in 2022.

So, while I concede it not true state news, it's not stormtroopers, or gestapo, and there is even still a very lenient bar for being tagged a security threat, his administration is employing enough of the same tactics for it to qualify.

At least in a scaled back version, which i think is comparable.

If California can be compared to Comminism, I feel I can compare Trump 2.0 to fascism. At least with the same superficial commonality.

[DBCowboy]

Oh my gawd!

That's a lot of words.

But what did you say?

WE don't live in a vacuum, so after 4 years of open borders, no-cash bail, changing laws that allowed shoplifting, rampant crime, Antifa torching buildings, tearing down statues, 10 million illegal aliens, trafficking drugs, children, sex-slaves, 100,000 deaths every year from drug OD, decriminalizing drugs overall . . . . . . . .

While the media spouts that all is well and this is normal and mostly peaceful.

Then we get to the Trump administration.

And I'll be honest, if you enjoyed the past 4 years of anarchy, riots, lawlessness, illegals, then coming to a place of rationality, common sense, and practical law-abiding approaches, well, it might look like fascism to anyone who is for lawlessness.

Criminals should go to jail.
Illegal aliens should be deported.

That's not fascism.

That's common sense.

You mentioned the military and all the changes.

For old vets like me and others, we laugh and say it's about time.

Back when I was in, it was STILL tougher than it is now.

That wasn't fascism.

That was military.

But again, when you come from a place where you get hugs and kittens instead of building warfighters, you might think it's extreme.

The problem with most people who cry "fascism" is that they have no sense of history.

For them, a year ago is ancient history and should be ignored.

Those who cry fascism have truly forgotten history and unfortunately, it will be these people who repeat it.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

Oh my gawd!

That's a lot of words.

But what did you say?

WE don't live in a vacuum, so after 4 years of open borders, no-cash bail, changing laws that allowed shoplifting, rampant crime, Antifa torching buildings, tearing down statues, 10 million illegal aliens, trafficking drugs, children, sex-slaves, 100,000 deaths every year from drug OD, decriminalizing drugs overall . . . . . . . .

Yeah, I tend to do that. Here is many more words. Just read the last paragraph of each segment if it helps? 

But what did I say? 

Did you actually take on any of my comparisons directly? Dont need to?

Look at the list of things you mentioned. I covered those. From my perspective they are propaganda devices meant to distract you from reality. Meant to invent scapegoats to ratchet you up to a cause.

Antifa didn't torch the majority of buildings. Everyone rioting did, including some antifa. Why dont you target the gangster african american males that torched most buildings?

You've been told they torched all the buildings as some kind of organized anti-American resistance, and a small percentage them might of been worthy of organized Terror charges, but it was a collective display of stir crazy opportunism and anger needing to get out. The psychological setting of isolation has never been faced.

I marched in a BLM parade just to walk 3 miles the week of the riots. And filmed them looting downtown from my apartment in awe.  Didn't look like antifa. Look like SSDI line. 

10 million or 15 million illegals? Bush had a higher percentage per capita with closed borders, immigration just wasn't a useful device in 2007 because the  global immigration surge happened under a republican.

The economy was ACTUALLY collapsing. But immigrants were never used to blame the housing recession as a populist campaign platform.

Illegals were blamed for the post covid crime surge. Yet cities without heavy immigrant numbers saw the same surges. The crime HAD NOTHING to do with illegals. 

No attention was paid to covid debt as the cause of homelessness and crime. The  evictions came in droves after the moratorium ended. The crime followed. In Trump math you can ignore the domestic cause to blame outsiders, like fascist governments do..

This time around it was a device used to make a still decent economy look stifled by liberal values. to blame all problems on scalegoats. 

How textbook is that list?

Everything you said, I feel is a device used by conservative media and harnessed by Trump to create a solution to a problem they make you think exists.

Like immigrants eating pets.

While the media spouts that all is well and this is normal and mostly peaceful.

Then we get to the Trump administration
And I'll be honest, if you enjoyed the past 4 years of anarchy, riots, lawlessness, illegals, then coming to a place of rationality, common sense, and practical law-abiding approaches, well, it might look like fascism to anyone who is for lawlessness.

Criminals should go to jail.
Illegal aliens should be deported.

That's not fascism.

That's common sense.

Once again your source of propaganda (conservative media) misleads you. I know you believe the left leaning cities are decaying to "anarchy, riots, lawlessness, illegals," 

San Francisco, One of Trump's favorite hellhole looked at themselves in the mirror in 2022/23 and in two years have the lowest crime in several decades. They did it by addressing addiction and homelessness through treatment and housing.  And yes, smacking themselves for the liberal DA.

Even Trump yielded to the stats when The SF mayor preempted a troop deployment. 

You think the cities are decaying because of fascist-styled scapegoat propaganda.

You think illegals are all criminal fentanyl mules because of fascist-styled scapegoat propaganda.

You think everyone is running child sex slaves... because, I dont know, It's weird, its almost like a neurotic fixation to see predators everywhere. But it's another device to wind people up. 

Fascist-like Propaganda is seen every time you'd rather assume George Soros (The Ultimate Progressive Jew) secretly controls and funds liberal protests, or pays off leaders leaders. You didnt wake up, you were put to sleep. 

And Occams Razor says you're freaking paranoid.

You mentioned the military and all the changes.

For old vets like me and others, we laugh and say it's about time.

Back when I was in, it was STILL tougher than it is now.

That wasn't fascism.

That was military.

But again, when you come from a place where you get hugs and kittens instead of building warfighters, you might think it's extreme.

The changes are heartbreaking and sexist. Men do man jobs, women do woman jobs. Roll back change so all the old school people dont feel shame anymore. We could kick everyone's ass, even allowing progressive change like liberal 4 star generals. 

But thats not the militarism I am seeing. Its the prelude to militarism that's concerning.

Its the imperialist trolling. Like "Gulf of America," "buying Greenland," or "The 51st state of Canada,"  I'm surprised we're still in NATO. I like the EU open border counties. I like the nordic model countries. Friends should be civil in their dealings, not act like its a freaking steal negotiation with Chinese companies. 

Expansionism is just another superficial parallel. And if you couple that with Pete Hegseth making them men like the old days and our token Greneda called Venezuela its like he's planning on threatening people for territory. 

The nuclear posturing to keep up with Russia, the recapturing of Cold War era tensions is walking backwards. It sends an ominous message of intention.

The problem with most people who cry "fascism" is that they have no sense of history.

For them, a year ago is ancient history and should be ignored.

Those who cry fascism have truly forgotten history and unfortunately, it will be these people who repeat it.

We are not the ones sleep-walking into it. We are throwing up all the flares possible and Trump's Cult of Personality and (at least waning) populist appeal prevents any of us from making headway under 40%. 

No sense of history? I spent that the first post listing all the ways Trump is using the same tactics as past fascists with that EXACT idea in mind. 

That is what you are doing, not recognizing history. 

The difference is opinion.

From my view pretty much everything about the last 4 years you think is truth, I call a false awakening to lies and propaganda.  All devices used to rally a party in the style of fascism to the common enemies you listed verbatim.

The thing is, you only see the elements of fascism, if you dont believe the lies.

And from diverged perspective both those prospects are simultaneously true. I dont need to.convince you, I just need to make the better argument

And just because its wordy doesnt mean it doesnt address things directly.

[DBCowboy]

"From my view pretty much everything about the last 4 years you think is truth, I call a false awakening to lies and propaganda.  All devices used to rally a party in the style of fascism to the common enemies you listed verbatim"

I'm debating someone about the color of the sky.

I say blue, you say, "Orange".

You think the last 4 years were awesome and peaceful, I think they were lawless and violent.

If Trump is a fascist, then he's the absolute worst fascist ever.

His goals are to make government smaller.

He's trying to eliminate entire departments!

He's trying to reduce the government employee workforce.

Doesn't sound very fascist to me, sounds more Libertarian if I had to name it personally.

And to another point, men are men, women are women.

Each has their role in society.

In the military, it should never be about equity, but who is the best, the strongest, the fastest.

You are bastardizing history, actually rewriting history to support your false assertions.  There is no, "your truth" or "my truth".

There is reality.

Stark and frank and honest.

And if you don't have the maturity to accept that your perceptions of reality have been skewed by the MSM and social media, then you are part of the lost generation who could never accept actual reality.

Perhaps this is why common-sense approaches and solutions often elude the left.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

There is reality.

Stark and frank and honest.

And if you don't have the maturity to accept that your perceptions of reality have been skewed by the MSM and social media, then you are part of the lost generation who could never accept actual reality.

Perhaps this is why common-sense approaches and solutions often elude the left.

What if YOU dont have the ability to see your perceptions have been skewed by YOUR own media?

What if your the one who is color blind?

You seem to think you have the only truth. You even said your sky is the actual blue of reality. 

Your sky isnt blue. You're not in a reality. You're in a cult.  You have conscripted  assertions of Truth and color recognition.

MSM?

You mean like Fox News, America's #1 Lie Factory News Source?

What are some of these realities? 

Is a stolen election reality?

Even with the 80+ failed court cases? Or would you rather believe the lie the entire system was corrupt? What if he really did lose and then did a bunch of shady shit to cling to power? 

Are criminal migrant-led explosions reality?

Or do they not cover the part where GLOBAL migration spikes during economic uncertainty and this is NOTHING NEW. Just harnessed as a scapegoat. 

Are WEF globalist overlords reality?

Or is that another NWO Christ-based fear conspiracy that gets the the god-fearing clutching rosaries that the world has gone to an uncomfortable changing hell? 

Is calling the left communist is reality?

Or do you not understand the difference between state and private ownership? 

You can call NYC democratic socialists now. But Zorhan is on a long list of past socialist mayors.

The others weren't made an issue by propaganda though, people just said, "Well, good luck, Milwaukee!" 

Is calling only liberal cities decaying reality?

How many times do I need to post that red states have higher crime rates? Ir point out a lack of social welfare leads to crime?.  There are tons of new and old studies that confirm welfare prograns reduce crime

Why not VIEW REALITY and accept the reason 2021 set homicide records was nothing to do with immigration? Your world of what caused the crime may not be reality at all.

The crime spike WAS GLOBAL.

In true quasi-fascist form Conservative News and Trump misrepresented the cause of it as caused by unwanted outsiders.

The homicide spike was homegrown.
The ODs spiked when the bars closed.
Drug use spiked during the lock downs.

Mostly domestic. Little caused by migrants. Maybe some drug mules to supply the lock down demand, which was almost entirely natiralized. 

98% of every opinion says GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL, and your media's truth sits with it fingers in its ears saying "LALALA FAKE NEWS, I CANT HEAR YOU LALA!"

You instead would rather believe the entirety of scientific consensus in lying to sell you hybrids and get you to eat bugs. You know, as opposed to selling you oil, internal combustion, and factory farmed livestock.

This is what Trump and Fox Nation (AKA his administration) has done. He has harnessed complimentary media to sell and enforce a false narrative that he then has to fix. A country in criseis that exists on the news more than real life. The hero has returned to make it better! 

What your missing is:

Its not fascism because ICE are doing raids, it's fascism because they're doing raids under a false premise of insurgent threat. They're fixing problems that they invented or exaggerated and treating people with unnecessary cruelty like its virtuous. 

I could cite stats and fact checks exposing these lies in TRUE BLUE. I could post more links for every waymy sources say  you believe lies.

But you would dismiss them all as MSM lies. The concensus of the world stands to oppose our greatness. 

We live in different worlds that reflect each other . And I dont think they can merge except to explain why the other is blind to their own brainwashing.

[DBCowboy]

What if YOU dont have the ability to see your perceptions have been skewed by YOUR own media?

What if your the one who is color blind?

You seem to think you have the only truth. You even said your sky is the actual blue of reality. 

Your sky isnt blue. You're not in a reality. You're in a cult.  You have conscripted  assertions of Truth and color recognition.

MSM?

You mean like Fox News, America's #1 Lie Factory News Source?

What are some of these realities? 

Is a stolen election reality?

Even with the 80+ failed court cases? Or would you rather believe the lie the entire system was corrupt? What if he really did lose and then did a bunch of shady shit to cling to power? 

Are criminal migrant-led explosions reality?

Or do they not cover the part where GLOBAL migration spikes during economic uncertainty and this is NOTHING NEW. Just harnessed as a scapegoat. 

Are WEF globalist overlords reality?

Or is that another NWO Christ-based fear conspiracy that gets the the god-fearing clutching rosaries that the world has gone to an uncomfortable changing hell? 

Is calling the left communist is reality?

Or do you not understand the difference between state and private ownership? 

You can call NYC democratic socialists now. But Zorhan is on a long list of past socialist mayors.

The others weren't made an issue by propaganda though, people just said, "Well, good luck, Milwaukee!" 

Is calling only liberal cities decaying reality?

How many times do I need to post that red states have higher crime rates? Ir point out a lack of social welfare leads to crime?.  There are tons of new and old studies that confirm welfare prograns reduce crime

Why not VIEW REALITY and accept the reason 2021 set homicide records was nothing to do with immigration? Your world of what caused the crime may not be reality at all.

The crime spike WAS GLOBAL.

In true quasi-fascist form Conservative News and Trump misrepresented the cause of it as caused by unwanted outsiders.

The homicide spike was homegrown.
The ODs spiked when the bars closed.
Drug use spiked during the lock downs.

Mostly domestic. Little caused by migrants. Maybe some drug mules to supply the lock down demand, which was almost entirely natiralized. 

98% of every opinion says GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL, and your media's truth sits with it fingers in its ears saying "LALALA FAKE NEWS, I CANT HEAR YOU LALA!"

You instead would rather believe the entirety of scientific consensus in lying to sell you hybrids and get you to eat bugs. You know, as opposed to selling you oil, internal combustion, and factory farmed livestock.

This is what Trump and Fox Nation (AKA his administration) has done. He has harnessed complimentary media to sell and enforce a false narrative that he then has to fix. A country in criseis that exists on the news more than real life. The hero has returned to make it better! 

What your missing is:

Its not fascism because ICE are doing raids, it's fascism because they're doing raids under a false premise of insurgent threat. They're fixing problems that they invented or exaggerated and treating people with unnecessary cruelty like its virtuous. 

I could cite stats and fact checks exposing these lies in TRUE BLUE. I could post more links for every waymy sources say  you believe lies.

But you would dismiss them all as MSM lies. The concensus of the world stands to oppose our greatness. 

We live in different worlds that reflect each other . And I dont think they can merge except to explain why the other is blind to their own brainwashing.

The sky isn't blue?

And now you bring in "global warming", the latest in the con of people.

Is is global warming, global cooling or "climate change" what normal people call, "weather"?

And you still defend the illegal aliens who have violated our country's laws.

Why?

Are you so against the Constitution, that making illegals a Cloward-Piven move favorable?


You are actually defending and promoting fascism, to be honest.

You support universal healthcare, why not go full communist?

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

The sky isn't blue?

And now you bring in "global warming", the latest in the con of people.

Is is global warming, global cooling or "climate change" what normal people call, "weather"?

And you still defend the illegal aliens who have violated our country's laws.

Why?

Are you so against the Constitution, that making illegals a Cloward-Piven move favorable?


You are actually defending and promoting fascism, to be honest.

You support universal healthcare, why not go full communist?

Address the arguments please?

Instead of immediately deploying the "You support universal healthcare, commie!"

I'm not calling YOU a fascist, I'm saying you've been brainwashed with fascist-like methods. I don't doubt your good intentions. I will never doubt your patriotism.  It's more of a "they know not what they do" thing, as arrogant as that sounds. 

CLIMATE CHANGE 

I'm sorry I brought the global warming into it, but it's a good argument for how MAGA is completely divorced from reality with propaganda. 

The Energy sector approves.

But before you dismiss it play this game for me.

Its called the, "What was the hottest year ever in _____?,  game."

All you have to do is pick 5 global cities at random. At least 3/5 with be after 2000. Usually 5 of 5.

I'll do it first. 5 cities picked at random.

Boston (2012, 2023), London (2022), Buenos Aires (2022), Jeddah (2010), Tokyo (2024)

Its not a scam, you've been misled by your echo chamber. Regardless of what caused it (likely CO2 and scrubbed SO2).  The "scam" line is like being the whore of big oil by default. They use your preference for tradition for their benefit.

ILLEGALS:

I'm not defending illegals as much as I'm saying Naturalized Americans are WAY bigger criminals in ALMOST EVERY Category, and you've been lied to AGAIN. Or otherwise used for your reaction.

Prove my point and say my stats are "Lies of MSM."

Here they are:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7768760/

There is the real reality.

Fig. 2 shows the rates for homicide, assault, robbery, sexual assault, burglary, theft, and arson. Without exception, undocumented immigrants have the lowest crime rates. Compared to native-born citizens, undocumented immigrants are roughly half as likely to be arrested for homicide, felonious assault, and sexual assault. The gaps for robbery, burglary, theft, and arson are considerably larger, whereby native-born citizens are between 3 and 5 times more likely to be arrested for these criminal offenses. For most crimes, the criminality of legal immigrants tends to be less than that of native-born citizens. The exceptions to this pattern are homicide, where the rates are roughly equal, and sexual assault, where arrest rates for legal immigrants are considerably higher.

So once again, I have provided evidence how the narrative you believe IS VERY LIKELY false and you're being radicalized against reality and the left, like were freaking Bolsheviks, Queers, and Gypsies. 

That emboldened text is THE OPPOSITE of the mantra Trump won the election with. He said "They're no good." "Terrible people."

Yeah, bYeahe left off the part where they are "terrible people who are half as likely to rape or kill me." 

Its textbook fascism to invent crises like this and sell you the nationalist remedy for it.

Which is exactly what they did and are doing. 

And all they needed to do was convince you that ALL MEDIA EXCEPT THE TRUSTWORTHY CONSERVATIVE ECHO CHAMBER lies. 

SOCIALISM:

The final evidence of how your misled is your ignorance to socialism, or you just dont care about the most important part it. 

A dictator is as important to fascism as state owning production is to socialism. Ive argued the dictator using propaganda to gain your unwaivering support for his autocracy, now find me an example of state controlling production! 

The ACA is no more socialism or communism than social security and Medicare. The only difference is the amount VAT taken.

We pay an average of 7.65% off the top in America for wealth distribution to Healthcare. Never been called socialism.

The ACA adds a total of 4.7% to that. 

A Universal Healthcare plan in the USA would need a 42% VAT.  I'm not Bernie Sanders and I'm not retarded.  I have NEVER supported something SO RIDICULOUS as trying to fund 340 million people's heathcare.

Things that WOULD NEVER WORK!

We are closer to TAX HAVEN Swizerland with The ACA then The Welfare Capitalism of Sweden.

You may not be able to see it that way because you've been radicalized by propaganda to live in an alternate reality, I am but the emmisary of the globalist concensus. 
 

"These commies all gotta go!"

"But you have free markets and private ownership."

"Yeah, but those commies raised our corporate taxes 7.5% to redistribute our wealth to healthcare!"

"But do you still own your higher taxed product? Do you still control its production and distribution?"

"Yes, but that has nothing to do with it. High taxes for increased welfare is communism!"

The multiple false ideals and definitions you believe. The scapegoats you been sensationalized and hypnotized into believing. They are all bricks in that wall further isolating this country from reality and the rest of the world.

[DBCowboy]

I thought we were supposed to stop after 3 posts.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

I thought we were supposed to stop after 3 posts.

[Image: https://denyignorance.com//images/addsmi...umppop.gif]

If we're going by rule following, I'm pretty much disqualified already. 

I went WAY over 800 words on two posts and provided 3 links on another post... so. 

But the rules I didnt follow says there is an opening post, at least 2 exchange posts (not restricting more), and a conclusion post.

So if you want to make that your 4th post, and that's probably all you really need as a counter, this will be my closing post.  And then you get to go last and have the final word.

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The 2nd Trump Administration, It's not so much they are fascist, as much as they use the same tactics of fascism to promote a born-again America. 

The agenda is largely pushed by religious think tanks (Like The Heritage Foundation) who saught to give the executive branch FAR greater power in their 2025 mandate, and that's exactly what we see happening.

The scapegoats, the domestic enemies, the retaliation against everyone that got in their way, the global isolation and tension, the militarism, the expansionism, the ally trolling,  it all paints a picture that's rather frightening to everyone not mezmorized by his personality spell.

While they will never piss on the bill of rights or go actually go after free speech, It wouldn't surprise me if they loosened the criteria to have your Writ of Habeas Corpus suspended for national security reasons. As easy as designating you an antifa terrorist for your views.

And with pretty much everything liberal being classified as prone to radicalism, the definition of what qualifies as threat just got a whole lot more broadly defined and easy to deploy.

Lets hope it never comes to that. Let's hope I am always allowed to freak out a little and make comparisons to Nazi on the internet. Might even look retarded in 3 years. 

Because then it stops being "I think they are using the methods of fascism," and becomes "they ARE fascists."

The groundwork is all laid though executive order. And that's scary enough. Even if they DON'T use it..