How the ancients navigated

[Sirius]

This thread actually explained allot to me, why I can research super quick and other folks take forever to make conclusion, you have to draw everything out and build models all the time and I just get aa movie in real time. Like with, every time they move you will have to redo your measurements and things, build physical models. I don't have to, that's why I'm a reverse engineer, I just look at the thing and know how it works...

[andy06shake]

Thats rich  Please try and take the the postulate theory of navigation to bits in a critical way. And tell me why it will not work. Do not do you usual shoot the messenger if you do not like the story.. You have the theory laid out now do one.

Please learn how to use the quote function.

Else how can we tell when you choose to respond?

Your so-called ""postulate"" collapses under every light of scrutiny.
 
You propose profit as the primary motive, tell that to nomads, exiles, or starving islanders.

Your "fixed destination" idea is idiotic when discovery means not knowing what’s there.

A grid system? Laughable. Try telling Polynesians or Phoenicians they needed longitude to sail thousands of miles.

Navigation predates capitalism, globes, and your clueless theorising.

And secrecy?

Profitable routes spread fast, if in doubt see the Silk Road, spice trade, or Viking maps.

Your theory isn't bold, it's historically illiterate couch waffle.

You didn't crack anything aside from possibly your own head, im afraid. 

Then misunderstood it and bragged like you'd invented the compass.

[andy06shake]

modern maps? the stars are a map, you can draw the lines down to the earth. why are monuments aligned to the stars? the serpent path,  dragon path

Exactly, ancient peoples didn't need "modern maps" when the sky itself was the map.

The stars, sun, and moon provided consistent reference points long before compasses or latitude.

And mariners and nomads alike used celestial navigation to travel vast distances with precision.
 
As to aligned to stars, well as you know, they marked solstices, equinoxes, or specific constellations, and the alignments served ritual, agricultural, and navigational purposes.

[quintessentone]

Sorry if this information was posted earlier in this thread, but here it is again, if it was. 

"The success of ancient mariners was significantly influenced by their understanding of wind patterns. The winds were not only vital for navigation but also for determining the timing of voyages. Ancient civilizations developed a sophisticated knowledge of how to read the skies, interpret weather changes, and use the winds to their advantage."

"Ancient sailors meticulously observed the winds and their behavior, leading to a rich body of knowledge regarding seasonal patterns. The Greeks, for example, recognized the importance of the "Meltemi," a strong north-northeast wind that blows during the summer months in the Aegean Sea. This wind was both a challenge and an opportunity, as it could either hinder travel or facilitate rapid journeys when harnessed correctly.
 
This understanding of seasonal winds was essential for planning voyages. Sailors would often wait for favorable winds before embarking on long journeys, such as crossing the Mediterranean or venturing into open waters. The interplay between Eolo's gifts and the sailors' knowledge of wind patterns underscores the collaborative relationship between humanity and nature."

"The Vikings, known for their seafaring prowess, also relied on their understanding of winds to navigate the treacherous waters of the North Atlantic. Their ability to harness the prevailing winds enabled them to explore new territories, including Greenland and North America. The legacy of Eolo, as a symbol of the winds, continues to resonate in the narratives of these ancient mariners who successfully navigated the seas."

Eolo and the Sea: Winds that Guided Ancient Mariners

Additionally, ocean currents supposedly could also be a navigation tool.

[annonentity]

The most quoted   way to get to the Caribbean from Britain, was to sail south until the butter melted and then turn right. Another observational simplicity that worked. All navigation is start off in the general direction and then refine the direction to get to a specific place.

[andy06shake]

The most quoted   way to get to the Caribbean from Britain, was to sail south until the butter melted and then turn right. Another observational simplicity that worked. All navigation is start off in the general direction and then refine the direction to get to a specific place.

That romantic nonsense about sailing "until the butter melts, then turning right" is a crude oversimplification, not sound navigation.

In reality, 18th-century navigators used celestial navigation, dead reckoning, and evolving charts, not dairy-based temperature guesses.

And the myth glorifies ignorance, never mind erases centuries of hard-earned maritime knowledge.

The Atlantic Ocean isn’t a gentle highway,  it's a maze of currents, doldrums, and storms.

Turning right at the wrong time could mean drifting into the likes of the Sargasso Sea or missing the Caribbean entirely.

Navigation is not casual guesswork followed by vibes, it's science, math, and precision, refined by generations who didn't fancy dying at sea because their butter got soft.

[quintessentone]

"The fascinating and unique stick charts of Micronesia are a window into how Oceanic navigators explored and sailed the South Pacific over the past few thousand years. These ancient seagoers used intuition, measurement, and an incredible knowledge of stars and sea to navigate over distances that are simply mind-boggling. In this video, we review the stick-charts of Polynesia and Micronesia and what they reveal about the Pacific culture and history of navigation."




Interesting topic, I must say and considering most common seafarers may have been uneducated, they naturally would have tried to figure out navigation science by observation, even if by noticing how butter/food reacts to varying temperatures. Lots of sea travel myths out there, including mermaids, etc.

[andy06shake]

"The fascinating and unique stick charts of Micronesia are a window into how Oceanic navigators explored and sailed the South Pacific over the past few thousand years. These ancient seagoers used intuition, measurement, and an incredible knowledge of stars and sea to navigate over distances that are simply mind-boggling. In this video, we review the stick-charts of Polynesia and Micronesia and what they reveal about the Pacific culture and history of navigation."

[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moJ1cNEpvSo&t=866s]

Interesting topic, I must say and considering most common seafarers may have been uneducated, they naturally would have tried to figure out navigation science by observation, even if by noticing how butter/food reacts to varying temperatures. Lots of sea travel myths out there, including mermaids, etc.

I suppose it's true that many early sailors weren't formally educated or could even read or write.

And even without schooling they developed remarkably sophisticated navigation techniques like you suggest.

Down to careful observation, shared knowledge, and hard-won experience.

But the "butter melts, then turn right" saying is more of a poetic shorthand than a real method.

And while it may reflect a vague awareness of climate zones, successful voyages required understanding winds, currents, stars, and dead reckoning.

Not just watching how food spoils.

I mean it's a charming myth, just like mermaids or sea monsters, but real navigation was practical, evolving, and far more complex.

[quintessentone]

I suppose it's true that many early sailors weren't formally educated or could even read or write.

And even without schooling they developed remarkably sophisticated navigation techniques like you suggest.

Down to careful observation, shared knowledge, and hard-won experience.

But the "butter melts, then turn right" saying is more of a poetic shorthand than a real method.

And while it may reflect a vague awareness of climate zones, successful voyages required understanding winds, currents, stars, and dead reckoning.

Not just watching how food spoils.

I mean it's a charming myth, just like mermaids or sea monsters, but real navigation was practical, evolving, and far more complex.

I recall looking at ancient maps where sea monsters were likely to be encountered. lol

[andy06shake]

I recall looking at ancient maps where sea monsters were likely to be encountered. lol

"Here there be monsters" or "hic sunt dracones". 

They did that in medieval times to signify uncharted or dangerous areas. 

I suppose it reflects how people fill in the blanks in their understanding with imagined dangers.

Rather than admit ignorance.

Poetic and telling i suppose.

And just goes to prove that when faced with uncertainty.

We often project our deepest anxieties into the void.