Free will

[Sirius]

We must surely be missing some third alternative...

Live life, submit to higher authority and don't think about it to much. There is a two way relationship in any case


When a man is corrupt, the police come. When a king is corrupt, the mob comes. When a natation is corrupt calamity strikes

Each is governed by authority. When a corrupt king is tolerated the gods sends earthquakes, tidal waves and asteroids. Everyone is punished

[Ignorant]

07-17-2025, 05:12 PM
Precognition is not difficult to grasp once you accept that you don't have free will
https://denyignorance.com/Thread-Precogn...0#pid57780

07-17-2025, 08:27 PM
This tends to be an entertaining subject, in my experience.
So, free will. What is it, and do we have it?

That's a different thread. I hadn't read it. Anyway, so you think everything is predetermined and therefore we don't have free will? Is that an accurate representation?

[Ignorant]

No. That would be like claiming comedy does not exist.

It was merely the only way I could think of to voice my objection. Chalk it up as a deficiency of imagination.

I share your objection. Free will is an absurd concept. But that's partly why it's so entertaining to discuss, imo.

[Bootless]

I share your objection. Free will is an absurd concept. But that's partly why it's so entertaining to discuss, imo.

I've listened to at least 20 hours of debates. I have the Sapolsky book Determined. I've read the Wikipedia article. And I just don't get it still.

I can only conclude that I don't have an opinion. Either I'm just too stupid to get it, or there is some fundamental flaw in the framing of the argument. It's like an over abstraction of living. Making up labels.

I suppose that if unidentified masked gunmen knocked me down and threatened to deport me to some African country that I've never heard of unless I chose Libertarian, Hard Determinism, or Compatibilism, I would say Compatibilism. If I were then asked why, I would say "because the word just sounds better to me."

[quintessentone]

I've listened to at least 20 hours of debates. I have the Sapolsky book Determined. I've read the Wikipedia article. And I just don't get it still.

I can only conclude that I don't have an opinion. Either I'm just too stupid to get it, or there is some fundamental flaw in the framing of the argument. It's like an over abstraction of living. Making up labels.

I suppose that if unidentified masked gunmen knocked me down and threatened to deport me to some African country that I've never heard of unless I chose Libertarian, Hard Determinism, or Compatibilism, I would say Compatibilism. If I were then asked why, I would say "because the word just sounds better to me."

I've used that tactic with my children, instead of asking them what they want to eat, I offered them only two choices. The illusion of free will.

[Ignorant]

I've listened to at least 20 hours of debates. I have the Sapolsky book Determined. I've read the Wikipedia article. And I just don't get it still.

I can only conclude that I don't have an opinion. Either I'm just too stupid to get it, or there is some fundamental flaw in the framing of the argument. It's like an over abstraction of living. Making up labels.

I suppose that if unidentified masked gunmen knocked me down and threatened to deport me to some African country that I've never heard of unless I chose Libertarian, Hard Determinism, or Compatibilism, I would say Compatibilism. If I were then asked why, I would say "because the word just sounds better to me."

That's exactly where I'm at. Compatibilism is problematic [1] but less so than the other options. Since free will is an absurd concept, I don't care so much about sounding like an idiot when I say (when pressed) that a logic gate has free will. The person who put a gun to my head and forced me to have an opinion is the bigger idiot. (Yes I know I started this thread).

1) I think, as compatibilists, we can't escape begrudgingly admitting that a machine has free will, and if someone wants to make life particularly hard for us they could even take us down a path where we have to eventually admit that atoms have free will.

[Waterglass]

This tends to be an entertaining subject, in my experience.

So, free will. What is it, and do we have it?

On Earth we have Free Will and we dont have a predetermined life as God also doesnt know what direction we will take. God and the other guy share power on Earth at 50 / 50. 

My take after meeting with Father Robert Morey of the Catholic Diocese of Charleston, South Carolina. He visited me and was at my home in July 2021 to bless it and to explain what I have encountered spiritually. He blessed our home. Hes a former United States Attorney. Hes also a Vatican trained Exorcist. I was given a clean bill of heath but he said I have been under a Spiritual Attack for some time. Per his guidance, I returned to the church, pray to the Rosary and several other things that I consider very minor and doable. My life is better.  

We discussed Free Will and thats where I get my view.

[quintessentone]

On Earth we have Free Will and we dont have a predetermined life as God also doesnt know what direction we will take. God and the other guy share power on Earth at 50 / 50. 

My take after meeting with Father Robert Morey of the Catholic Diocese of Charleston, South Carolina. He visited me and was at my home in July 2021 to bless it and to explain what I have encountered spiritually. He blessed our home. Hes a former United States Attorney. Hes also a Vatican trained Exorcist. I was given a clean bill of heath but he said I have been under a Spiritual Attack for some time. Per his guidance, I returned to the church, pray to the Rosary and several other things that I consider very minor and doable. My life is better.  

We discussed Free Will and thats where I get my view.

I interpreted Jesus' message to be to choose to follow God's will, so in choosing God's will would that then be your free will or your free choice to give up your free will in following God's will?

[Waterglass]

I interpreted Jesus' message to be to choose to follow God's will, so in choosing God's will would that then be your free will or your free choice to give up your free will in following God's will?

My interpretation of what you wrote is that Gods Will, would be to follow the Ten Commandments. We on earth have the Free Will to either follow the Ten Commandments or not as our Free Choice. But thats just the ten commandments. We have a Free Will as to how to treat someone and have the free  choice to treat them bad, good or average manner.

[andy06shake]

On Earth we have Free Will and we dont have a predetermined life as God also doesnt know what direction we will take. God and the other guy share power on Earth at 50 / 50. 

My take after meeting with Father Robert Morey of the Catholic Diocese of Charleston, South Carolina. He visited me and was at my home in July 2021 to bless it and to explain what I have encountered spiritually. He blessed our home. Hes a former United States Attorney. Hes also a Vatican trained Exorcist. I was given a clean bill of heath but he said I have been under a Spiritual Attack for some time. Per his guidance, I returned to the church, pray to the Rosary and several other things that I consider very minor and doable. My life is better.  

We discussed Free Will and thats where I get my view.

How can something supposedly omnipotent share power? 

I mean, if sharing power means permanently limiting one's own power, that could be considered somewhat paradoxical.

And if delegation, is the answer, one has to wonder, what's the point?