(05-06-2024, 05:01 AM)Creaky Wrote: Yes, religion, belief does blind us but it can also opens our minds to the absurd and fanciful
Mormons, Scientologists and JWs come to mind
never mind my personal views from some others stand point
you didn’t answer my question
My apologies, I was pressed for time earlier but thought my response covered most of what ibsaw in the thread.
To answer your question specifically. We are all spirits. Spirits I fleshly bodies having a human experience. The claim in the OP is angels, who existed before the creation, ones He calls "sons of God" in scriptures, angels, who have taken on a mission of servitude in their lives, angels that are meant to be a voice of love within a family and community. Angels sent down to help mankind, and in my own thoughts, possibly to be tested. If this were true, then I could see where these angels would have no idea if what they are in this life. They will feel like everybody else in most ways, and yet completely different in others. I see them as having a strong desire to do the Lord's will in their life. And by Lord's will, i mean actually helping people. Feeding the hungry and giving water to the thirsty, types of help. I would think they would be great friends in times of trouble. I think of them like "guardian angels" only they are in human form, a brother or sister in a family who is always steering the family to act in love and steer them from hate. The little things that make a huge impact on people's lives.
My thought was, if the devil and demons can hide, walk around in human form, then it makes sense that God would be able and doing the same thing. Only God is even better at hiding himself, and his angels.
So yes. Angels' spirits (which again, we are all spirits) in human bodies.
Scriptures talk about how God "knew" people before they were born.
This raised a question for me, that lead to this as part of the conclusion.
If God "knows us" (his children) before they were born, then that could mean that even we "existed" before we came into these bodies.
Jesus claimed that John the Baptist was in fact, Elijah---reincarnated.
And yet, most "Christians" don't even fathom or believe in any type of reincarnation.
The reason why we miss so much of these hidden mysteries is religion.
Hence my response. I hope I answered you more thoroughly. It's not something I am wanting to argue. It's just something I'm presenting as an idea....a possibility. And one I believe to be truth.
(05-05-2024, 07:32 PM)rickymouse Wrote: ell, I am no angel. I am someone who is being taught through this earth experience to follow a specific path which will allow me to be born into the real reality. I feel there are what we call angels out there that can control our minds to see them, hear them, and even touch them. Which leads me to believe the reality we live in may not really be real.
Even if there were no celestial beings and religion is a fabrication of our minds, programming is what it could be. The actual things that are taught in Christianity are good. Though shall not kill, though shall not try to covet they neighbors spouse, though shall not lie or bear false witness, and though shall not steal....they are good things for society.
Our reality we live in is being created or has been created over a long time and much of it was created to unfairly balance everything to benefit certain people or groups. Is that Mona Lisa really worth what they say it is worth, is my house worth more or less than yours? Love of money is one of the roots of all evil, I believe that. A person's wealth or popularity does not impress me, their prestigious title or degrees sitting on a wall or their title as king or president does not impress me. Their honesty and integrity is what I feel is important. Just because they wrote ten books on a subject does not mean they are someone I should praise, just because a person is a famous well paid actor does not mean I should go nuts when I met them. I have met bikers in a motorcycle club that I trust more than a politician, lawyer or judge. I try not to judge people but at the same time, it does not mean I have to trust them if I feel they are corrupt.
There are some people who want power over others, they will lie and cheat to get power or wealth. I also have known rich people that were just regular people who were good people. Just because a person is rich does not mean they are bad. I have also met people who made their money by overcharging and using their reputation to gain wealth....but have also seen those same people change later in life and try to give back to the communities that helped them get ahead. One I know actually bought land and made community gardens to help people to help themselves and teach the young how to grow their own food. I grew up on a farm, to me this is a good thing, trying to help people fend for themselves in an honest way.
The one thing I have not figured out is what Demons are. I feel they exist, bad spirits that can weasel themselves into people and corrupt their minds to make them believe they are more important than others.
I am a nobody...Nobody pays their bills, nobody is totally honest these days, nobody seems to believe in being good anymore, nobody wants to help people without gaining either prestige or wealth. So that makes me a definite nobody. I dropped out of medical school half a century ago because I saw that most people going into the trade were in it for gaining wealth or prestige.....I just wanted to help those who needed it, I was afraid what that instructor at the lecture from the AMA was saying about "not worrying about taking the money of people who don't know how to eat" was going to make me into someone I would not want to be...I did not think I was strong enough to deflect it back in the mid seventies. So I attempted to switch fields, but most of the classes I had tested out of would not transfer, I would have finished my four year degree in two and a half years in Pre-med. So now I am studying things again and see how bad it has gotten. Face it, If I would have become a doctor, I would have had my license yanked away within five years for not following the protocol of playing the game I was supposed to play.
I look back at everything that happened in my life and if I could go back and change it I would change nothing. I have learned from my mistakes, I have learned from the mistakes of others too, I have learned that the reality we live in has been created by people who gained from creating it. We have been brainwashed to believe we need things we do not need. We have been led to believe wants are more important than needs...so someone can benefit by our brainwashing. Society itself promotes waste and fulfilling wants. Do you need to buy an expensive engagement ring to get engaged, a ring that makes it so young couples need to struggle when they get married? Think about all this, I bet there are things I have not even thought of yet that people could add to this social conditioning.
There are some great insights in there. You are most definitely on to something.
We share a similar view of our surroundings. Even your story about walking away from the medical field. My story is very similar to yours.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
(05-05-2024, 08:02 PM)Maxmars Wrote: Perhaps that is one way to look at this. But I felt that not to be a mystic allegory. I think people... some of them particularly... are intensely good. Ironically, they usually are not tolerated unless they hide who they are. These people, by their nature, are a force of goodness. Whereas I could be an inspirationally inclined person who could embrace the idea as "Anyone might be one." Generally uplifting you see.
The spiritual identity-minded might invoke an "essence unseen" or an "influence unfelt" as an entity - an angel or a demon - it matters little as a diagnosis... I can only deal with the effects. So I proceed with the human experience as my context, generally.
Once you get into the demon or angel "personality" the complications get deep. It's too easy to project, and contrive an understanding, crafting it, rather than experiencing it.
Everyone either has 'scars' or makes their own, whether that person is good or evil... there are no special cases. Pain doesn't engender personal growth, it only mimics it.
I really like that last paragraph. So true.
