Columbia University has fallen

[FlyingClayDisk]

Well, you can't really "lose" that kind of right, can you?

You either have it, or never did.  I know there is a lot of history in this conflagration of events.  But I was never certain that there had ever been a "Palestinian State."  Not to say people can't have such a thing, but what kind of state can exist without actual borders?  None that seem a compatible fit in the world today, in my opinion.

The responses to the "disagreement" so far have not been at all constructive. ...

...

 
Max, mine have.  Honest, they have.

People (all people), only need to answer ONE question..."Does Palestine have a right to exist?"

There is only two answers to this questions..."Yes", or "No".

If the answer is 'No", then things will continue onward for 1,000 years.  If the answer is 'Yes', then things may change.

It's really a simple question, not hard at all.  You either agree, or you don't.  Simple.

I ask hard questions.  I have to.  It's what I do.  My questions are not easy, nor do I expect them to be. 

There are no "EASY" answers here, and people die in an effort to answer some of them...so it is not without pain some of these questions get answered. 

Depending on what side you choose, people may die.  Taking the middle road will result in people on "both" sides dying.  THIS is a choice intelligent people have to make.  The "high-ground" is easy...until you have to defend it with your own blood, then it's not so easy.

[putnam6]

Palestinians have lost all rights to statehood after their decades long attacks and wars against Israel.

In my humble opinion.

Yeah, it sets the wrong precedent if they can plan and execute 10/7 and that's the impetus for Palestinian statehood. 

If we snapped our fingers and gave Palestinians Gaza and the West Bank, they would still fire rockets at Israel and plot thier destruction. It's how the power brokers control the Palestinian masses, there are reasons Egypt never freed Gaza

[Notran]

Yeah, it sets the wrong precedent if they can plan and execute 10/7 and that's the impetus for Palestinian statehood. 

If we snapped our fingers and gave Palestinians Gaza and the West Bank, they would still fire rockets at Israel and plot thier destruction. It's how the power brokers control the Palestinian masses, there are reasons Egypt never freed Gaza

Very unlikely.
All the trouble happens because Palestine is under occupation from Israel and has been for very long.
You don't have to be a student to realise what the solution to the problem is.
You can't compare the rockets fired at Israel with the weapons Israel has.

---

Palestinians have lost all rights to statehood after their decades long attacks and wars against Israel.

In my humble opinion.

You can't lose the right to statehood because of the reason you said.
Palestine is under occupation, one of the main reasons the student protests are taking place, and the cause of liberation is highly supported by most countries in the world and lately we ve seen several European countries recognise Palestinian statehood. Can't remember exactly but Ireland, Spain, Norway, and one other have recently recognised Palestine. It's imo inevitable and best of the two sides work out their differences because they have to live together.

[FlyingClayDisk]

Very unlikely.
All the trouble happens because Palestine is under occupation from Israel and has been for very long.
You don't have to be a student to realise what the solution to the problem is.
You can't compare the rockets fired at Israel with the weapons Israel has.

---

You can't lose the right to statehood because of the reason you said.
Palestine is under occupation, one of the main reasons the student protests are taking place, and the cause of liberation is highly supported by most countries in the world and lately we ve seen several European countries recognise Palestinian statehood. Can't remember exactly but Ireland, Spain, Norway, and one other have recently recognised Palestine. It's imo inevitable and best of the two sides work out their differences because they have to live together.

Gantz walked earlier this month from Netanyahu's war cabinet, and today Netanyahu dissolved the rest of the cabinet (probably so he wouldn't look so bad when the rest of them walked).  Very few are happy with Netanyahu's leadership through all of this.

Israel could do themselves a great big favor by giving Netanyahu the giant boot.  Gantz is the likely successor, and while not a perfect permanent solution, he'd at least be a step in the right direction.  Netanyahu has vowed there will never be statehood for Palestinians, and he's rejected virtually every ceasefire proposal, so none of this is going anywhere while he's at the helm.  The most recent one in Feb had Blinken in the middle of it (and he couldn't negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag).  Blinken and Biden (and the Central non-Intelligence Agency spooks) need to stay out of it.  If there's going to be a deal brokered, Qatar will be the ones to pull it off.  It'd be pretty interesting (and comical) to see Qatar put a deal on the table where Netanyahu stepping down was one of the conditions!  (Hint-hint, Al Thani...hope you're listening!)

[Blaine91555]

You're saying students don't have critical thinking skills because they don't support the war in Gaza? Then according to this logic most of the world doesn't have good critical thinking skills because most people are against what Israel is doing in Gaza. If you think that by not supporting the war or Israel makes you an antisemite perhaps you should look at the definition of antisemitism again. Funny thing- many Jewish people are against what they call mass murder and genocide of Palestinians.

You are like a dog with a bone on that simple biological fact that I stated. It is a fact that Prefrontal Cortex keeps developing until around 25 years of age. It's why teens and young adults often make so many wrong decisions and engage in bad behavior and at time dangerous behavior. It's nothing new or controversial.

LINK
The prefrontal cortex is an important part of your brain. It is at the front of the frontal lobe, which is immediately behind the forehead. It affects your behavior, personality, and ability to plan.
Function The prefrontal cortex is involved in many brain functions. One of the most important is executive function, or the ability to self-regulate and plan ahead. Examples of executive function include:2
 

• Controlling your behavior and impulses 
  
• Delaying instant gratification 
  
• Regulating your emotions 
  
• Planning
  
• Making decisions 
  
• Solving problems 
  
• Making long-term goals 
  
• Balancing short-term rewards with future goals 
  
• Changing your behavior when situations change 
  
• Seeing and predicting the consequences of your behavior 
  
• Being able to consider many streams of information 
  
• Being able to focus your attention
  

In general, the prefrontal cortex is considered fully developed by the age of 25.2Arain M, Haque M, Johal L, et al. Maturation of the adolescent brain. Neuropsychiatr Dis Treat. 2013;9:449-461. doi:10.2147/NDT.S39776
This is why car insurance companies charge higher rates until a person turns 25 because they are high-risk drivers. They explain that the prefrontal cortex is involved in risk-taking and decision-making, which are both important for driving.

I'm not insulting anyone. I'm just pointing out that young adults of college age are not emotionally or cognitively prepared to make good decisions and are easily led by people with bad motives, like say antisemitic people.

It's also a fact that young people are targeted by the worst, most evil people because they know they can control them easily and lead then in wrong directions. Hitler knew it, Mao knew it and they used them.

What we are witnessing on campuses are young people groomed to hate Jews and to support terrorists. How else can you explain anyone siding with Hamas after Hamas attacked Israel in such a brutal fashion? Israel would be insane to not eliminate Hamas.

I'm not blind to the fact that there are innocents drug into this. Hamas has seen to that. Any civilian deaths are the direct result of actions taken by Hamas. They hide behind women and children, they set up operations at hospitals and schools and store weapons and hide their terrorist army underneath them. Hamas is definitive evil. 

How anyone can side with Hamas is beyond reason. Why support a terrorist group who's goal is the total elimination of Jews and after that the elimination of Western Democracies like the United States?

Parents need to rise up and stop this indoctrination from happening in our countries universities. We need to take a hard look at all of our schools and figure out how hate has taken them over.

---

 
People (all people), only need to answer ONE question..."Does Palestine have a right to exist?"

There is only two answers to this questions..."Yes", or "No".

It's not quite that simple.

Another question is why exactly is it that neither Jordan nor Egypt want the people who call themselves Palestinians?

Yet another question is why does Iran support them in the same way they support all antisemitic peoples and terrorist groups. We know that the leaders of Iran want all Jews dead and gone.

[FlyingClayDisk]

It's not quite that simple.

Another question is why exactly is it that neither Jordan nor Egypt want the people who call themselves Palestinians?

Yet another question is why does Iran support them in the same way they support all antisemitic peoples and terrorist groups. We know that the leaders of Iran want all Jews dead and gone.

Well, yeah it is that simple, really.  The question/statement you make are just diversions from the question.  Do they, or don't they?  (Palestinians have a right to exist / statehood)

Now, you may think I am anti-Israel and I'm really not at all.  And, I am most certainly not pro-Hamas (terrorist).  Honest I'm not (you'll have to trust me)  I have no axe to grind with Israel as a people.  I am anti-Netanyahu definitely, but not anti-Israel; those are two different things.  And, I am anti-Hamas.  But rather than go down that rabbit hole, let me phrase things a different way for you.

This thing is bigger than Israel, and this is my point.  And, I do understand the Hamas problem/angle, I really do.  However, If Israel refuses to budge, and keeps on pushing the Palestinians into an ever smaller corner, eventually not Hamas but Hezbollah is going to get involved (as they already have to a degree).  When that happens, it's a much bigger problem, much bigger.  Hezbollah makes Hamas look like some cuddly puppy dogs.  Israel might be able to hold their own against Hamas, but they won't stand a chance if Hezbollah gets involved...and the minute you blow up Hezbollah you'll have Iran on your doorstep.  Then, it's no longer just Israel.  Then others, like the US, are going to have to get involved, militarily.  And if this happens, it won't end well...for Israel, Iran, the Palestinians, the United States, or anyone else.  Plus, if Iran gets involved, then Russia gets involved. 

So, you see, this is bigger than Israel, but Netanyahu doesn't see it this way.  He only sees Israel; he's selfish this way.  He has blinders on because he's not worried about the rest of the world, only Israel.  In his mind, everyone 'else' will deal with the rest of the world.  He just expects the US will be there to back him up no matter what he does.  But if Netanyahu goes and starts WWIII, that's a shit show none of us want to see.  And the first group of people who are going to get 'cancelled' are...the Israelis.  I don't want that; you don't want that, and nobody wants that.  Candidly, the Israeli people definitely don't want that.  So, one of the first steps out of this mess is Netanyahu; he needs to go.  Baby steps, but baby steps "out" of the fire, not into it like Netanyahu is doing.  Netanyahu must go.

That is my point.

[putnam6]

Very unlikely.
All the trouble happens because Palestine is under occupation from Israel and has been for very long.
You don't have to be a student to realise what the solution to the problem is.
You can't compare the rockets fired at Israel with the weapons Israel has.

Your message board opinion says unlikely, but Hamas' remaining leaders, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and Iran, and the Houthis and the college protestors (remember the original premise) have all in some shape or form rallied for the complete and permanent destruction of Israel.

Hezbollah and Iran both will continue to attack Israel, especially when and if Gaza and the West Bank become free and independent. 

From the the river to the sea, does not include a sovereign, safe, and secure Israel. 

I still haven't talked much here about addressing Israel's points for continuing the onslaught, the remaining hostages, and then continuing the influence and control Hamas has over Gaza. Because it's not the point of the thread. 

But
let's just leave Hamas in control write off the hostages, and see how that goes...

thankfully even DC sees now this isn't possible

https://x.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1802759042701635610

 There were reasons Egypt didn't free Gaza when they controlled it for 11 years too

[DBCowboy]

Fair enough, DBC.  And, I appreciate your insight.

I would only clarify that Palestine, is not Hamas.  I realize this is hard to see, but much like stereotyping of blacks eating watermelon, or liberals all being gay, it is just that, a stereotype.  Palestinians have made a grave mistake allowing a "terrorist" organization into their midst, no doubt.  This will negatively affect their ability for statehood for a good deal of time.  There is NO question Hamas are TERRORISTS!  Period; end of discussion about Hamas!  

I would rather choose to re-word your statement as..."Palestinians have severely compromised their right to statehood...as a result of their allowing a terrorist organization, Hamas, to speak and act on their behalf, and integrate into their civilian population".  No, I'm not making excuses; you know me; I don't lie.

I will not make excuses for why some cultures of people allow this to happen, but sadly sometimes it is the Arab way (which is one of the reasons I don't like the Arab culture).

I only ask one thing...let's keep the Palestinians, and Hamas / Hezbollah, separate.  Yes, the Palestinians are sorely mistaken for allowing these TERRORISTS into their society, but this does not diminish all those who refuse these actions (and there are quite a few, even the majority).

What is the difference between a palestinian and a hamas?

---

During WWII, we never differentiated between Germans and Nazi's.

We never differentiated between Japanese and the Imperial Army.


Differentiating now feels like a PR trap set by hamas, Iran and everyone that wants to see the end to Israel.

[FlyingClayDisk]

What is the difference between a palestinian and a hamas?

---

During WWII, we never differentiated between Germans and Nazi's.

We never differentiated between Japanese and the Imperial Army.


Differentiating now feels like a PR trap set by hamas, Iran and everyone that wants to see the end to Israel.

Ironically, it's a PR trap indeed, but one set by the Israelis themselves.  I know this seems odd to you, but it's true.

Regarding Iran; Iran wants to see the end of FAR more than Israel.  Iran is an evil terrorist state.  They're (Iran) just wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth that Israel gives them the excuse to execute their larger plans.

Seriously, and with all due respect, do you think Israel is capable of bringing Hezbollah into line...without outside intervention?  Trust me, it's not possible for Israel, and it's certainly not possible if Iran enjoins the fight.  Netanyahu is barking up the wrong tree; he is crazed with his own political survival, and he is willing to take millions of Jews down with him.  How is this so difficult for you to see?  Sure, throw the tired old "ANTI-SEMITIC" label at me, BUT, I don't want to see Jews OR Israel die.  And this is exactly what will happen unless Israel does not get rid of Netanyahu.  He has vowed his life to never allow Palestinian settlement, no matter where it lands; "Not a single grain of sand", he's said; he's crazed about it.  His political career depends on it...but only his.  He is ignorant of the Jewish people.  How can you not see this????  How can you defend this man who wants NO peace? 

Go ahead, say I am pro-Hamas (I am not, but go ahead and say that).  Say I am anti-Semite, and anti-Israel (I am neither of those things, but go ahead and say it).  Call me whatever names you wish, but I am none of those things (unless honest observer is one of them).  I do not wish doom on the Israeli people, they are kind and generous.  They are good people.  Netanyahu, on the other hand, is in this for only one thing, and that is his political 'skin', and his own ego.

Netanyahu needs to go!

[DBCowboy]

Ironically, it's a PR trap indeed, but one set by the Israelis themselves.  I know this seems odd to you, but it's true.

Regarding Iran; Iran wants to see the end of FAR more than Israel.  Iran is an evil terrorist state.  They're (Iran) just wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth that Israel gives them the excuse to execute their larger plans.

Seriously, and with all due respect, do you think Israel is capable of bringing Hezbollah into line...without outside intervention?  Trust me, it's not possible for Israel, and it's certainly not possible if Iran enjoins the fight.  Netanyahu is barking up the wrong tree; he is crazed with his own political survival, and he is willing to take millions of Jews down with him.  How is this so difficult for you to see?  Sure, throw the tired old "ANTI-SEMITIC" label at me, BUT, I don't want to see Jews OR Israel die.  And this is exactly what will happen unless Israel does not get rid of Netanyahu.  He has vowed his life to never allow Palestinian settlement, no matter where it lands; "Not a single grain of sand", he's said; he's crazed about it.  His political career depends on it...but only his.  He is ignorant of the Jewish people.  How can you not see this????  How can you defend this man who wants NO peace? 

Go ahead, say I am pro-Hamas (I am not, but go ahead and say that).  Say I am anti-Semite, and anti-Israel (I am neither of those things, but go ahead and say it).  Call me whatever names you wish, but I am none of those things (unless honest observer is one of them).  I do not wish doom on the Israeli people, they are kind and generous.  They are good people.  Netanyahu, on the other hand, is in this for only one thing, and that is his political 'skin', and his own ego.

Netanyahu needs to go!

*sigh*

Let me put it another way then, how can I hate hamas and not hate palestinians (who are hamas)?