324
05-28-2024, 04:58 PM
This is a lengthy post that I hope you find thought provoking as it pertains to the UFO/UAP/ET phenomenon.
The ode to Astr0 is a slug of my current thoughts on how we got to current state with UFOs and how his story may in many ways check out.
Please read the Astr0 thread linked below if you have not already. At least read his opening few posts. At minimum, it’s some of the best sci-fi you’ll see.
For my post to make sense, you must be familiar with the thread.
The Astr0 Thread:
https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1023494/pg1
About your author: I have consumed a lot of material on The Phenomenon, personally witnessed a flying disk and have spent considerable time and resources on the UFO/UAP/ET phenomenon via active investigation. Enough to have moved away from the axis on the Dunning-Kruger chart, at least.
I in no way suggest that I have the purported knowledge that Astr0 conveyed. I very much live on-world, have zero “inside information” and despite my desires I have yet to be abducted and taken off planet :).
What I present is a “story” of sorts that takes us into history as a validator of Astr0’s commentary and touches on the UFO phenomenon, too.
With that we begin with WW1:
WW1 is spoken of less than WW2. I’ll get to WW2 but a point of curiosity from the WW1 era is the impact that it had on Adolf Hitler.
A link to WW1 Wiki:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I
Hitler was an ambitious officer in the WW1 campaign who received commendations for his service. Despite his somewhat flailing start in life and his strained relationship with his parents - and a desire to be an artist - his time in school and politics around him made him become a “German Nationalist”. He had developed a hatred for the Austro-Hungarian Empire (which collapsed) and some believe this time period is also when he started to become anti-Semitic. That’s all important to consider because we all know what came later; The Third Reich. Hitler and others in German government were bent on forwarding Germanic society and people above others.
A wiki on Adolf Hitler:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
While Hitler was gaining popularity tied to his passionate beliefs and oratory skills, the Germans were up to other endeavors on the heels of negative WW1 outcome.
Specifically, they were on an archeological quest. They traveled the world in search or artifacts and proof that Germanic peoples were the cradle of civilization. They measured skulls, examined ruins and more under the guise of “science” but they had a material military agenda behind these explorations. There seems to have been a belief that a competitive advantage could be found via archeological activities.
I suspect part of what drove this is the idea of “Nazi Occultism”:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occultism_in_Nazism
Said another way, the Nazi’s weren’t constrained by convention. They scoured the earth for artifacts, “Atlantis” and more.
Link to Nazi Archeology:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_archaeology
From my reading, I do think there absolutely was the purpose of trying to prove to the German people that they were “superior”. But, I don’t think that was the full purpose - it was the window dressing.
Along the archeological way the Germans must have become aware of something (or developed a belief) that is pretty hard for people to wrap their minds around even today: That we don’t represent the apex of technological advancement relative to everyone who has ever resided on Earth. I am extrapolating with this comment but I think it’s entirely possible that part of why the Germans of the time were so hung up on “racial superiority” was only part of the story - they had reason to believe that an advanced race was here, they were descendants of it and there were artifacts that existed which could help them in their quest to establish the 1000 year Reich.
Some of these expeditions may have been useful for them. I say that as German technology in WW2 was in many ways superior to just about everyone else’s. V1, V2, jet aircraft, etc. They were far ahead of the times - and oddly so - without even getting into the “Nazi Bell” discussion. It appears that their ability to not be constrained by convention helped them think and explore differently - perhaps more open-minded. What gives that statement some weight in my opinion is how they are referred to as using “pseudoscience” and “pseudoarcheology”. If they were so crazy, then why would we have engaged in Operation Paperclip?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
Astr0 points out that it was a “chance discovery” in 1947 - which is smack dab in the middle of operation Paperclip - that set off the rest of their story. The finding of a large, heavy, impervious black triangle.
The US absorbed many scientists and the remaining German technology via Operation Paperclip. Technology that may or may not have been very advanced, ancient or thought of very differently than how the US or allied forces had been developing or considering. Said differently, it was powerful information. So powerful that it created our space program and helped with the atomic bomb.
And this is where the Astr0 story connects to the idea of a breakaway civilization.
By absorbing the Nazi scientists, they would have shared lots of information. This likely includes the use of archeology for advancement - along with their studies of many topics akin to Teslas’s lines of thinking. A “relic from prehistory” that was “forgotten about” as Astr0 stated or paid little attention to would be the type of artifact the Germans would be curious about. Something unknown and unexplained. Something like a large, immensely heavy, impenetrable stone found in a “diamond mine” or rather found deep in the ground and set aside. This would have been fascinating to the Nazi Archeologists and scientists. It would have represented a potential advantage.
As we began deploying nuclear weapons, Astr0 alleges that the stone “switched on”. Given we had just absorbed the Nazi Scientists, we would have been in the “right place at the right time” as Astr0 put it. We had nuclear capability, over a thousand former Nazi scientists, all of their previous data and the generally right conditions to use the information. It’s also possible that the German’s were already in possession of this stone and by “finding it” we mean inheriting it from the Nazi’s following their WW2 defeat.
Once that stone “turned on” it was the start of the breakaway civilization.
We could now discuss Werner Von Braun endlessly, and that’s a worthwhile discussion, but recall the alleged “We had help” comment attributed to Von Braun that many suspected means “aliens helped us”. That may be a misguided interpretation. It’s entirely conceivable that help came from the archeological expeditions, findings, artifacts and more. No ETs required. And since we know that Germany and the Nazi’s were both supporters of “the occult” and “pseudoscience”, coupled with how advanced they were on a relative basis, I don’t think it’s reasonable to rule out the idea that their expeditions were in fact helpful to their efforts.
Astr0 suggests that once we found this stone we started taking instructions from it upon its “awakening”. and the rest is history. I think he may well be right.
Von Braun was had many quotes which I find very enlightening if you spend some time with them:
https://www.azquotes.com/author/1841-Wernher_von_Braun
What Astr0 described is a very human expedition into space - not “aliens”. Between the Nazi scientists, Nazi technology, US technology/resources and nuclear capability all we would need is a little “help”.
It was also about this time that we started to experience UFO sightings being reported at scale:
Kenneth Arnold - 1947 - “Flying Saucers”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_...O_sighting
Roswell
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_incident
“UFOs” drawn to nuclear sites
https://www.history.com/news/ufos-near-n...rendlesham
There are many more.
The splitting of the atom appears to be the hurdle to get over if you wish to attract attention from advanced visitors. I suspect it’s a price of admission, of sorts. We can blow ourselves up and theoretically can blow them up, too.
The period of 1947 to 1958 was an incredible period relative to enhancing technology. I use 1958 specifically as that was the time NASA was conceived as a “civilian agency”. Said differently, I hypothesis we needed NASA and their activities to conceal the efforts of our “black project” space engagements. As far as the public was concerned, we were going to the moon and that was the bleeding edge of our advancement. The moon shot was a perfect distraction and yes I do believe we went to the moon at least once.
NASA and its predecessor, NACA, for reference:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National...eronautics
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA
And this is where Astr0, known history, UFOs, ETs and the “space program” intersect.
By 1957 we had a backdrop of the absorption of the Nazi scientists, nuclear capability, rocket technology and were about to embark on the Space Race publicly started with Sputnik. But, that’s what I think of as the “open-source lag”. The reality is we likely got started well before the public was aware, which is outlined in this piece. And this is where UFOs come in…
Kenneth Arnold’s encounter and Roswell shortly after brought UFOs to the front page. It also coincides with our nuclear capability and aligns with the long history of UFO sightings near nuclear facilities. For reasons I mentioned earlier, it appears we may have got “their” attention.
To that end, Eisenhower allegedly engaged ETs on several occasions.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...laims.html
The Eisenhower engagements have been widely discussed, debated, etc. Against the backdrop of the Astr0 story, i suspect these meetings very well may have happened. We went “out there”, got “their” attention and ended up having to make some deals (of sorts). We were barely a decade into leveraging our newfound capabilities and likely were not in a strong position to negotiate. Think of it like someone coming into a lot of money but never had money to speak of - they have an idea of to do with it but there’s also a lot they don’t understand about it. It’s new thinking. We were the poor bloke who won the lottery. So, Ike had to do some talking and make some concessions because our weaponry and space advancements forced us to the table - a table we might even have known existed. This is where abductions, cattle mutilations and the uptick in UFO sightings came from. While we were going “out there” on the Astr0 voyage in its infancy, “they” were here. And since it was determined we could not all go on the Astr0 voyage, the “deals” may well have been necessity.
This feeds my thoughts that some UFOs are “ours” and some are “theirs”. I suspect “they” have come and gone from Earth for a very long time but became decidedly more interested in us in the late 1940s and have been here ongoing since.
So, back to 1957 and the beginnings of public space exploration. This is the period where our “treaties” with “them” were probably necessary as we head out into space. If we’re space fairing, we’ll probably encounter “them”.
We could discuss The Space Race, Apollo, Russian space activity and more but instead I’ll pivot to something else: Mars.
While most were occupied with the moon, we began making strides towards mars in the 1960s. Interestingly, the US seemed to have a lot more success in terms of getting to Mars, including landers in 1971. But, why Mars? Why the moon?
A link to Mars exploration history:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_Mars
I suspect we wanted to go to the moon and mars as an extension of what our absorbed Nazi scientists knew about “archeology”. This is also why I suspect we have been on Mars for a long time - longer than publicly acknowledged. Look at it like this… if the Nazis via their “occult” archeological expeditions did find something (like Astr0s stone), imagine what you might find on another planet? I suspect all of the recon wasn’t “science” based it was military based. We were searching for materials, relics, crashed vehicles - ancient and very advanced technology. This fits perfectly with what the US absorbed from the Nazi’s post WW2. Very likely the same goes for the moon.
Working through the 1970s up to the 1980s, we become aware of the Big Black Triangle phenomenon. These sightings persist today.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_triangle_(UFO)
In the backdrop of the history I’m discussing there’s the ongoing progress made from the 1940s to now by what Astr0 calls the “RK’ers”. So while our well-known space race was advancing, RK’ers were, too, in the background. This is an immensely important point because somewhere between what appears to be the late 1950s and about 1980 the “breakaway” RK’ers probably did break away because the power of compounded experience and knowledge effectively created a new offshoot of humanity. Still very much human but with a very different perspective.
We’re all aware of the Space Shuttle era, mars rovers, advanced telescopes, probes that have been launched and a bunch more. Most all of that either obviously happened or almost certainly happened.
This makes it plausible to me that some humans have advanced materially beyond what’s thought to be possible (Astr0), some ET’s are here (starting in earnest with nuclear capability) and some of what is experienced is advanced military technology.
There are several points that didn’t make it into this piece like commentary on the moon, mars, Venus, “gravity”, what space is, Tesla, pyramids (including the black one that’s allegedly in Alaska that sounds oddly similar in composition to Astr0’s stone) and a whole bunch more.
My takeaway from my research is that Astr0’s story is at least plausible without doing a ton of mental gymnastics. It also confirms my experience that some of what’s witnessed is “ours” and some of it is “theirs”.
Lastly, as you decide as a reader whether you follow this line of thinking of not, I encourage you to at least consider the value in looking at things through a different lens. While I may not be perfectly over target here (which none of us can likely confirm or deny) there are certainly some nuggets that offer some interesting topics to consider such as “what kinds” of knowledge did Operation Paperclip provide us? Is archeology actually striving to gain an advantage for our future vs. studying the past?
Kind of like this whole story, perhaps many things can be true at once.
Thanks for reading.
The ode to Astr0 is a slug of my current thoughts on how we got to current state with UFOs and how his story may in many ways check out.
Please read the Astr0 thread linked below if you have not already. At least read his opening few posts. At minimum, it’s some of the best sci-fi you’ll see.
For my post to make sense, you must be familiar with the thread.
The Astr0 Thread:
https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1023494/pg1
About your author: I have consumed a lot of material on The Phenomenon, personally witnessed a flying disk and have spent considerable time and resources on the UFO/UAP/ET phenomenon via active investigation. Enough to have moved away from the axis on the Dunning-Kruger chart, at least.
I in no way suggest that I have the purported knowledge that Astr0 conveyed. I very much live on-world, have zero “inside information” and despite my desires I have yet to be abducted and taken off planet :).
What I present is a “story” of sorts that takes us into history as a validator of Astr0’s commentary and touches on the UFO phenomenon, too.
With that we begin with WW1:
WW1 is spoken of less than WW2. I’ll get to WW2 but a point of curiosity from the WW1 era is the impact that it had on Adolf Hitler.
A link to WW1 Wiki:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I
Hitler was an ambitious officer in the WW1 campaign who received commendations for his service. Despite his somewhat flailing start in life and his strained relationship with his parents - and a desire to be an artist - his time in school and politics around him made him become a “German Nationalist”. He had developed a hatred for the Austro-Hungarian Empire (which collapsed) and some believe this time period is also when he started to become anti-Semitic. That’s all important to consider because we all know what came later; The Third Reich. Hitler and others in German government were bent on forwarding Germanic society and people above others.
A wiki on Adolf Hitler:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
While Hitler was gaining popularity tied to his passionate beliefs and oratory skills, the Germans were up to other endeavors on the heels of negative WW1 outcome.
Specifically, they were on an archeological quest. They traveled the world in search or artifacts and proof that Germanic peoples were the cradle of civilization. They measured skulls, examined ruins and more under the guise of “science” but they had a material military agenda behind these explorations. There seems to have been a belief that a competitive advantage could be found via archeological activities.
I suspect part of what drove this is the idea of “Nazi Occultism”:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occultism_in_Nazism
Said another way, the Nazi’s weren’t constrained by convention. They scoured the earth for artifacts, “Atlantis” and more.
Link to Nazi Archeology:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_archaeology
From my reading, I do think there absolutely was the purpose of trying to prove to the German people that they were “superior”. But, I don’t think that was the full purpose - it was the window dressing.
Along the archeological way the Germans must have become aware of something (or developed a belief) that is pretty hard for people to wrap their minds around even today: That we don’t represent the apex of technological advancement relative to everyone who has ever resided on Earth. I am extrapolating with this comment but I think it’s entirely possible that part of why the Germans of the time were so hung up on “racial superiority” was only part of the story - they had reason to believe that an advanced race was here, they were descendants of it and there were artifacts that existed which could help them in their quest to establish the 1000 year Reich.
Some of these expeditions may have been useful for them. I say that as German technology in WW2 was in many ways superior to just about everyone else’s. V1, V2, jet aircraft, etc. They were far ahead of the times - and oddly so - without even getting into the “Nazi Bell” discussion. It appears that their ability to not be constrained by convention helped them think and explore differently - perhaps more open-minded. What gives that statement some weight in my opinion is how they are referred to as using “pseudoscience” and “pseudoarcheology”. If they were so crazy, then why would we have engaged in Operation Paperclip?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
Astr0 points out that it was a “chance discovery” in 1947 - which is smack dab in the middle of operation Paperclip - that set off the rest of their story. The finding of a large, heavy, impervious black triangle.
The US absorbed many scientists and the remaining German technology via Operation Paperclip. Technology that may or may not have been very advanced, ancient or thought of very differently than how the US or allied forces had been developing or considering. Said differently, it was powerful information. So powerful that it created our space program and helped with the atomic bomb.
And this is where the Astr0 story connects to the idea of a breakaway civilization.
By absorbing the Nazi scientists, they would have shared lots of information. This likely includes the use of archeology for advancement - along with their studies of many topics akin to Teslas’s lines of thinking. A “relic from prehistory” that was “forgotten about” as Astr0 stated or paid little attention to would be the type of artifact the Germans would be curious about. Something unknown and unexplained. Something like a large, immensely heavy, impenetrable stone found in a “diamond mine” or rather found deep in the ground and set aside. This would have been fascinating to the Nazi Archeologists and scientists. It would have represented a potential advantage.
As we began deploying nuclear weapons, Astr0 alleges that the stone “switched on”. Given we had just absorbed the Nazi Scientists, we would have been in the “right place at the right time” as Astr0 put it. We had nuclear capability, over a thousand former Nazi scientists, all of their previous data and the generally right conditions to use the information. It’s also possible that the German’s were already in possession of this stone and by “finding it” we mean inheriting it from the Nazi’s following their WW2 defeat.
Once that stone “turned on” it was the start of the breakaway civilization.
We could now discuss Werner Von Braun endlessly, and that’s a worthwhile discussion, but recall the alleged “We had help” comment attributed to Von Braun that many suspected means “aliens helped us”. That may be a misguided interpretation. It’s entirely conceivable that help came from the archeological expeditions, findings, artifacts and more. No ETs required. And since we know that Germany and the Nazi’s were both supporters of “the occult” and “pseudoscience”, coupled with how advanced they were on a relative basis, I don’t think it’s reasonable to rule out the idea that their expeditions were in fact helpful to their efforts.
Astr0 suggests that once we found this stone we started taking instructions from it upon its “awakening”. and the rest is history. I think he may well be right.
Von Braun was had many quotes which I find very enlightening if you spend some time with them:
https://www.azquotes.com/author/1841-Wernher_von_Braun
What Astr0 described is a very human expedition into space - not “aliens”. Between the Nazi scientists, Nazi technology, US technology/resources and nuclear capability all we would need is a little “help”.
It was also about this time that we started to experience UFO sightings being reported at scale:
Kenneth Arnold - 1947 - “Flying Saucers”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_...O_sighting
Roswell
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_incident
“UFOs” drawn to nuclear sites
https://www.history.com/news/ufos-near-n...rendlesham
There are many more.
The splitting of the atom appears to be the hurdle to get over if you wish to attract attention from advanced visitors. I suspect it’s a price of admission, of sorts. We can blow ourselves up and theoretically can blow them up, too.
The period of 1947 to 1958 was an incredible period relative to enhancing technology. I use 1958 specifically as that was the time NASA was conceived as a “civilian agency”. Said differently, I hypothesis we needed NASA and their activities to conceal the efforts of our “black project” space engagements. As far as the public was concerned, we were going to the moon and that was the bleeding edge of our advancement. The moon shot was a perfect distraction and yes I do believe we went to the moon at least once.
NASA and its predecessor, NACA, for reference:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National...eronautics
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA
And this is where Astr0, known history, UFOs, ETs and the “space program” intersect.
By 1957 we had a backdrop of the absorption of the Nazi scientists, nuclear capability, rocket technology and were about to embark on the Space Race publicly started with Sputnik. But, that’s what I think of as the “open-source lag”. The reality is we likely got started well before the public was aware, which is outlined in this piece. And this is where UFOs come in…
Kenneth Arnold’s encounter and Roswell shortly after brought UFOs to the front page. It also coincides with our nuclear capability and aligns with the long history of UFO sightings near nuclear facilities. For reasons I mentioned earlier, it appears we may have got “their” attention.
To that end, Eisenhower allegedly engaged ETs on several occasions.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...laims.html
The Eisenhower engagements have been widely discussed, debated, etc. Against the backdrop of the Astr0 story, i suspect these meetings very well may have happened. We went “out there”, got “their” attention and ended up having to make some deals (of sorts). We were barely a decade into leveraging our newfound capabilities and likely were not in a strong position to negotiate. Think of it like someone coming into a lot of money but never had money to speak of - they have an idea of to do with it but there’s also a lot they don’t understand about it. It’s new thinking. We were the poor bloke who won the lottery. So, Ike had to do some talking and make some concessions because our weaponry and space advancements forced us to the table - a table we might even have known existed. This is where abductions, cattle mutilations and the uptick in UFO sightings came from. While we were going “out there” on the Astr0 voyage in its infancy, “they” were here. And since it was determined we could not all go on the Astr0 voyage, the “deals” may well have been necessity.
This feeds my thoughts that some UFOs are “ours” and some are “theirs”. I suspect “they” have come and gone from Earth for a very long time but became decidedly more interested in us in the late 1940s and have been here ongoing since.
So, back to 1957 and the beginnings of public space exploration. This is the period where our “treaties” with “them” were probably necessary as we head out into space. If we’re space fairing, we’ll probably encounter “them”.
We could discuss The Space Race, Apollo, Russian space activity and more but instead I’ll pivot to something else: Mars.
While most were occupied with the moon, we began making strides towards mars in the 1960s. Interestingly, the US seemed to have a lot more success in terms of getting to Mars, including landers in 1971. But, why Mars? Why the moon?
A link to Mars exploration history:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_Mars
I suspect we wanted to go to the moon and mars as an extension of what our absorbed Nazi scientists knew about “archeology”. This is also why I suspect we have been on Mars for a long time - longer than publicly acknowledged. Look at it like this… if the Nazis via their “occult” archeological expeditions did find something (like Astr0s stone), imagine what you might find on another planet? I suspect all of the recon wasn’t “science” based it was military based. We were searching for materials, relics, crashed vehicles - ancient and very advanced technology. This fits perfectly with what the US absorbed from the Nazi’s post WW2. Very likely the same goes for the moon.
Working through the 1970s up to the 1980s, we become aware of the Big Black Triangle phenomenon. These sightings persist today.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_triangle_(UFO)
In the backdrop of the history I’m discussing there’s the ongoing progress made from the 1940s to now by what Astr0 calls the “RK’ers”. So while our well-known space race was advancing, RK’ers were, too, in the background. This is an immensely important point because somewhere between what appears to be the late 1950s and about 1980 the “breakaway” RK’ers probably did break away because the power of compounded experience and knowledge effectively created a new offshoot of humanity. Still very much human but with a very different perspective.
We’re all aware of the Space Shuttle era, mars rovers, advanced telescopes, probes that have been launched and a bunch more. Most all of that either obviously happened or almost certainly happened.
This makes it plausible to me that some humans have advanced materially beyond what’s thought to be possible (Astr0), some ET’s are here (starting in earnest with nuclear capability) and some of what is experienced is advanced military technology.
There are several points that didn’t make it into this piece like commentary on the moon, mars, Venus, “gravity”, what space is, Tesla, pyramids (including the black one that’s allegedly in Alaska that sounds oddly similar in composition to Astr0’s stone) and a whole bunch more.
My takeaway from my research is that Astr0’s story is at least plausible without doing a ton of mental gymnastics. It also confirms my experience that some of what’s witnessed is “ours” and some of it is “theirs”.
Lastly, as you decide as a reader whether you follow this line of thinking of not, I encourage you to at least consider the value in looking at things through a different lens. While I may not be perfectly over target here (which none of us can likely confirm or deny) there are certainly some nuggets that offer some interesting topics to consider such as “what kinds” of knowledge did Operation Paperclip provide us? Is archeology actually striving to gain an advantage for our future vs. studying the past?
Kind of like this whole story, perhaps many things can be true at once.
Thanks for reading.
