3rd shooting in Minnesota.

[ReturnofBroccoli]

I think Gill nailed the nuts and bolts of it all and I agree with him 100%. 

[Image: https://denyignorance.com/uploader/image...47dbf.jpeg]

Looks like he's capitalizing on their capitalization. They all do it trust no one!

[Caligurl]

Well as long as there is different political views in this country, there is going to be people that are unhappy with how this administration handles situations like this. In my household, I am a Trump Supporter and my husband is anti- Trump. So much so that I actually think he has that TDS-Trump Derangement Syndrome. So you can only imagine the conversations that take place in our house. I can say that in the end, we agree that we all learn something from these instances. I learned, my gun rights are valid but not if I place myself in a situation in order to use those rights. My husband learned that law enforcement are humans and humans make mistakes, - and Trump still is President whether he likes it or not.

[Kurokage]

You know buddy I see you comparing right wing and nazi and all that but nationalists aren't bad, right isnt bad, left isnt bad, PEOPLE are BAD and anyone has the potential for monstrosity. Guns aren't evil either, its how you use it. Same with the agenda.

I think the key is in the balance of it all and learning to compromise instead of drawing lines in the sand because when you draw a line in the sand, you force the other to cross it. They have to because if they don't they are stuck there. So maybe it isn't a good way to solve problems. In the words of Sun Tzu - always leave your enemy an opening for exit.

There's also a thing called acceptable loss. When someome draws a line in the sand and is like "dont cross this or else" always cross it because its the worst they can think of and you can probably live with it but they apparently can't live with you crossing that line ;)

I wasn't comparing Nazism to America's right-wing, I was comparing the use of propaganda to weaponize certain people or groups after Member David quoted Goebbels. (this was a tactic Goebbels used)
I just found it funny seeing someone use a Nazi quote like that.

Acceptable loses tend to be used in war scenario's, not in context of controlling people demonstrating.

[Vermilion]

https://apnews.com/article/shooting-minn...02ce7480a7

Well, it sure looks like things have come to a head and Bovino has been sacked over the conduct of his officers

Customs and Border Protection commander-at-large Greg Bovino is returning to El Centro, California, to resume his duties as chief of that sector, multiple sources told ABC News.
The position of commander-at-large was a temporary position.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/bord...=129582658

Deportations will not stop, especially in sanctuary cities and states.

[Kurokage]

Customs and Border Protection commander-at-large Greg Bovino is returning to El Centro, California, to resume his duties as chief of that sector, multiple sources told ABC News.
The position of commander-at-large was a temporary position.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/bord...=129582658

Deportations will not stop, especially in sanctuary cities and states.

No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it's still a pig!  

He's been moved on and will be "retired" very soon I bet.

[Vermilion]

No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it's still a pig!  

He's been moved on and will be "retired" very soon I bet.

“The position of commander-at-large was a temporary position.”

He’s done with his deployment and is now back home deporting illegals in California.
Pretti beat him to ‘retirement’ so I suppose he gets the last laugh.
Poor Bovino.

[RazorV66]

“The position of commander-at-large was a temporary position.”

He’s done with his deployment and is now back home deporting illegals in California.
Pretti beat him to ‘retirement’ so I suppose he gets the last laugh.
Poor Bovino.

They should be careful what they wish for.

Homan is coming to clean up that shithole.

[putnam6]

You just described crimes for obstruction and resisting arrest.

He had plenty of opportunity to pull the weapon but never did. “Putting his hands” on an officer after he got pepper sprayed and struck. In reality though, it looked like he was defensively trying to prevent being struck more. I didn’t see him strike an officer once. 

Trying to equate that to domestic terrorism is just such a stretch. Maybe he could have been charged with a crime, we’ll never know.

It’s your right to take everything the officials said at face value. I can’t stop you and simply disagree with you. I just think the “case” you made with random statements from people would be weak as hell if it was scrutinized in a court of law. It’s really hard to get terrorism charges, and you don’t just get them from trying to prevent agents/officers from beating the shit out of you.

Again, you’re right to believe whatever you want. I’m sure in a year we’ll see threads on how the midterm elections were stolen instead of any introspection on how that masses viewed certain events.

Its a message board, CS its not a court of law #1 

We will see if there is evidence to indict; there's plenty of bodycam footage. 

Even if CBP/ICE made mistakes procedurally, they likely did; we have to know where that first shot was from, definitely.

 If it was extracted by an agent and fired accidentally (which this model does do BTW) ITS DIFFERENT than the first shot coming from Pretti or another agent

You are calling for a conviction and don't even know who fires which shots. 

I believe it was an agent and AND gun misfired, but I also believe he didnt notify he had the gun or he didnt know it was Pretti's

None of this is cut and dried except if Pretti stays home, he doesn't do the 10 things that put him on the wrong side of a gun, he isn't dead

A good start here is reading about Minnesota's concealed carry laws... 

Are you willing to bet your burgedeoning career as a prosecutor, if he violated the state's concealed carry laws, and laws about engaging LEOs 

Did Pretti have a valid permit with him at the time of the incident? 

It's a simple yes or no
 

The law does not distinguish between concealed and open carry for permit holders—both are allowed with a valid permit, but a permit is mandatory for carrying a handgun in public places, including in a vehicle (Minn. Stat. § 624.714).

  Interactions with Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs)
Minnesota does not have a "duty to inform" law requiring you to proactively notify an LEO that you are carrying a firearm upon contact. However, if directly asked by an officer, you must disclose whether you are carrying and present your permit along with valid ID (e.g., driver's license). This applies during traffic stops, pedestrian encounters, or any official interaction.

• Best practices (not legal requirements): For safety, many experts recommend voluntarily informing officers during stops (e.g., "Officer, I have a permit to carry and am armed") and keeping hands visible, but this is optional. 
  
• In vehicles: If carrying without a permit, firearms must be unloaded and cased; with a permit, they can be loaded and accessible.
  
• Failure to disclose when asked can result in permit revocation or charges.
  

[CriticalStinker]

“The position of commander-at-large was a temporary position.”

He’s done with his deployment and is now back home deporting illegals in California.
Pretti beat him to ‘retirement’ so I suppose he gets the last laugh.
Poor Bovino.

I just find it so odd people are willing to celebrate him being mag dumped in the back just because he flailed a little bit in ten seconds after being pepper sprayed and struck.

People even going so far as to repeat he wiped his social media because they saw it on Twitter while refusing to provide sources (you could go to way back machine and get screenshots if it were true). Or repeating things they saw on Twitter about what the family said.

I think it’s just evidence there are statists on both sides of the aisle. Save face at any cost to keep some illusion that humans on “our team” never make mistakes. All humans make mistakes, this one was tragic.

The agents look like they made a mistake in a split second. That’s not even criminal if they truly feared for their lives because of a miscommunication. 

But instead, people are willing to peddle the narrative he was a domestic terrorist assassin, something even Trump himself and Karoline seem to be distancing themselves from.

What does this even win? All it does is turn off independents, the ones who actually decide elections. What’s the point on dying on this hill?

[CriticalStinker]

Its a message board, CS its not a court of law #1 

We will see if there is evidence to indict; there's plenty of bodycam footage. 

Even if CBP/ICE made mistakes procedurally, they likely did; we have to know where that first shot was from, definitely.

 If it was extracted by an agent and fired accidentally (which this model does do BTW) ITS DIFFERENT than the first shot coming from Pretti or another agent

You are calling for a conviction and don't even know who fires which shots. 

I believe it was an agent and AND gun misfired, but I also believe he didnt notify he had the gun or he didnt know it was Pretti's

None of this is cut and dried except if Pretti stays home, he doesnt do the 10 things that put him on the wrong side of a gun.

A good start here is reading about Minnesota's concealed carry laws... 

Are you willing to bet your burgedeoning career as a prosecutor, if he violated the state's concealed carry laws, and laws about engaging LEOs 

Did Pretti have a valid permit with him at the time of the incident? 

It's a simple yes or no
 

The funny thing is, I’ve never asked for a conviction here. Ive said multiple times it was likely an accident, and that it happened fast enough many could agree they could have been fearful for their lives. That doesn’t justify the shoot, it just means they don’t see criminal charges.

The only people trying to skip court here are the ones saying he was a domestic terrorist without evidence, or even some instances they say they have a source but refuse to show it (a tweet).

And to my knowledge, he didn’t have the permit or ID on him, a petty misdemeanor. Is that a capital offense? What does that have to do with him being mag dumped on? Did they know he didn’t have those when they shot? What’s the point?