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(06-17-2024, 08:28 PM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: I don't think anyone should "surrender", honestly.
Equally, I don't think anyone will ever surrender, on either side.
The expectation of unconditional surrender is not realistic and will only make this conflict drag on longer.
DB, you have said you understand these cultures, but I am beginning to question that. If you truly understood these two cultures you would know that 'saving face' is right up there with about the most unimaginable loss of honor that a society and culture could ever have. They will never "surrender"...ever. They will spill every last drop of their blood before they 'surrender'. You know this, right? So, how could you ask me such a question?
The Palestinians, the Israelis, the Muslims, the Jews...they will never, ever, ever...ever...surrender.
They've been fighting for 2,000 years, 'surrender' is just not in their DNA at this point.
C'mon, man, all due respect, but don't be silly.
Which is why only an overwhelming force can defeat them.
They look at compromise and negotiation as weakness.
We need to kill them so harshly that they go, "Oh crap" Okay, we surrender.
(06-17-2024, 08:29 PM)Maxmars Wrote: (I hope this doesn't come off as I haven't intended it.)
Perhaps your assessment of the situation regarding Hamas isn't necessarily "about" Palestinians. (And "hate" is a strong sentiment, often more than reality accommodates.)
Being born Palestinian can't possibly be "a criminal" thing. Nor can being born Israeli.
If you can accept that, from this point forward how can we vilify everyone without damaging the innocent?
Israel, and the 'government' of Palestine are not instruments of the people, anymore than our government is. They are supposed to be... but only a fool would simply assert they are in this day and age. Their "decision-making" bodies operate according to (in most cases) the "will" of very few. The actions governments take (today) are not the "will of the people." Surely we have learned that by now.
"Hamas" and "Israel" both are guilty of playing stupid games, measuring what destruction and loss of life is "acceptable" or "glorious." But never are the victims consulted... they are for "show." The disparity here is between those still listening to the "political" show, and those waging war.. a show stopper. It's like Ukraine... all about "appearances."
The original sin, if you wish, are those who "make this happen" from the resort where they gather. Perpetually untouched by the gore and devastation they cause.
Meanwhile, these young students and their ideological mentors pretend that this is about "awareness." As if they were "changing" someone's mind about things. Activism doesn't work like that... it never did.
As a boomer, I hated the Germans during WWII. Had close relatives fight.
They didn't differentiate between "German" and "Nazi".
They were all targets and we won the war by killing more of them than they killed of us.
