Columbia University has fallen

[putnam6]

He didn't put it well.

He completely disregard history

https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/

This version of history is coming from the Zionist project and has nothing to do with the real events.

Nakba, ethnic cleansing, persecution, apartheid.

The rest of the world knows history and more and more countries recognising now Palestinian Statehood. Symbolic at the moment but important in th future.

The establishment of a Palestinian State is inevitable no mattet what the Zionists try to do. It has the support of many Jews who are accusing Israel of war crimes and genocide.

Perhaps a thread discussing the Jews who are on the side of Palestinians it will be an eye opener.

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IDF has no credibility.

You should believe nothing they claim even if it turns out to be true.

Yeah Im not interested in the back-and-forth, blanket statements or the rest of the world, everybody lives in thier bubble of experiences and influences, you included. Nor Im I interested in being told what to read, how authoritarian of you, BTW. I read, listen to, and discuss the wider topic on Discord and X/Twitter all the time. I got links and book recommendations of the conflict's history months ago and Ive already read two of them because I want to have a wider viewpoint and learn all sides. Ive included the opening statement from the article, as it is germane to the discussion and highlights its complexities and variables not seen in other conflicts.

Highly recommend Benny Morris — author of “The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947—1949,” “1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War” and “One State, Two States"

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-ar...very-start

 
When Hamas invaded Israel on Oct. 7, the scale and savagery shocked the world. But the attack, as well as Israel’s ruthless response in Gaza, is less surprising in historical context: the intifadas of the 1980s and early 2000s, the 1967 war and ultimately the events surrounding Israel’s founding in 1948.
The Israel-Hamas war has created a vast divide — each side with its own set of arguments and sometimes impossible-to-prove facts. That isn’t just true of keyboard warriors or politicians; even historians within the same small movement can develop vastly different perspectives. If sorting out an objective truth feels hopeless, it’s still worth seeking points of convergence or, at the very least, stable terms of debate.

 
The Palestinians remember 1948 as a vast tragedy, the Nakba — their memory is filled with that but they’re not told or don’t care that they started the war. What they remember is that they’re refugees. I can certainly understand these descendants of refugees looking across the border and seeing these green fields and Israelis living in prosperity by comparison and feeling resentment and hatred.
The hatred essentially comes from the history of refugee-dom and Israeli occupation. But also when the Israeli government withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005 it ended up being administered by Hamas, this extremist, fanatical Islamist organization, which inculcates in its children hatred of Jews and Israel and the idea that everything must be solved by the sword. So the hatred also comes from an education system which brought up everybody believing that Jews must die and Israel must die. And one of the results of this is what happened on Oct. 7.

 
I’m not a supporter of Netanyahu — he’s a hateful, corrupt leader. But this thought about going back to 1948 really goes to the basics: the Zionist view is that the Arabs want to destroy the Jewish state. It’s not just the Gaza Strip, there’s constant shooting by the Lebanese Hezbollah and now the Houthis in Yemen are firing rockets into Israel and seized a[n Israel-linked] ship.
We’re surrounded by states and groups basically run by the Iranians, who are behind much of this. I’m not saying the Gaza Arabs don’t have their own native antagonism, but they’re also acting as agents, as the Hezbollah are, of Iran, which wants to destroy Israel.

MY EXPERIENCE in matters such as these is both sides have their propaganda, falsehoods, and outright lies, however, in this instance and MY VIEWPOINT, the flashpoint ALWAYS comes back to 10/7. Ive always looked at Israel with a sideways glance, as an American I don't trust either side completely. I have no problem with Palestinian statehood as long as it's peaceful and doesn't attack Israel or anybody else. In the socio-political climate following 10/7 and the Israeli response, it seems much further down the road than it would have been previous to 10/7. 

If the Palestinians wanted to try and negotiate Palestinian statehood, they needed a better opening statement than the attacks on an October Saturday morning in Israel. Since 2000 Gaza had more financial and material aid per square mile than any location in the world. Instead of building a peaceful, prosperous community, from the huge financial windfall and get ready to live in the 21st-century world, they built tunnels and rockets. They plotted against Israel, with a brutally barbaric raid like you would see in the 17th century. All the while using financial aid to enrich thier leaders and indoctrinate less fortunate Gazans to hate the Jews and live for nothing but the destruction of the Israeli state.