Ever quit antidepressants? The media is telling stories...

[Tecate]

As K218b stated, people “practice “ medicine and don’t necessarily ever get it right.

Just because they passed Med School doesn’t mean they were at the top of the class. The best and brightest usually don’t stay at family medicine levels. Not to say that they are inferior, they usually get pushed into specialties.

I can only speak to the question that was asked.

Physicians aren’t trained in Mental Health unless it’s specialized training. Once they start to actually interact with patients it becomes a see one, do one, teach one concept. And their pharmaceutical/ pharmacodynamics training is relatively basic. It’s essentially on the job training. Hence blindly trusting a physician is generally a piss poor idea as well.

Better still to get the diagnosis, and do your own research and then see what medication works for you. Otherwise you might as well believe what the tv commercials tell you. Of course they just spout the side effects without telling you what the drug is used to treat!

Tecate

[Maxmars]

I don't take antidepressants.  I don't know anyone who has.  From what I read about them, they can cause more harm than good.   I know people on other kinds of mental health medicine - Risperidone.  I know it helps them a great deal.  They couldn't function without it.  So mental health medicine may be a mixed bag ... depending on who is taking it and for what.

My only advice about medications ... don't take advice from random people on this, or any other, discussion forum.  When someone comes on here and tells you to avoid medication ... then I suggest you avoid doing what that poster says.   LISTEN TO YOUR DOCTORS and LISTEN TO THOSE AROUND YOU IN REAL LIFE.

Thank you for reiterating a hugely important point!...

There is no "post" (nor article for that matter) that can be take the place of "medical expertise."  I am no doctor, no medical professional of any kind... and I dare say - while well-intentioned and sincere - no one can or should dole out medical advice without that caveat... and everyone should be sure to consult with one with our concerns... it's much safer that way...
 

---

I will say that my best experience with one or two of the antidepressants prescribed to me offered some tangible effect... but it was temporary... and there were side effects.   When I say temporary there is a stinging twist at the end.  As my abated depression manifested itself again, I had to "convince" the doctor... an unpleasant affair... also I found myself not only depressed - but now medicated and jittery - sleepless - or somehow or otherwise afflicted with side-effects I wouldn't have except: "prescriptions." (which ironically, is something to be depressed about.)

Frustrating.

Maxmars, to your original question, “ Have you ever quit antidepressants?”

Yes I have. I was on Effexor for about 4.5 years and it was a special hell that I finally decided to escape from. My physician and ex-wife peer pressured me into them believing that I was suffering from PTSD (35 years as a frontline Advanced Care Paramedic) when in reality I was unable to cope with her and her family’s bullshit.

My opinion is that as with depression, and anxiety, PTSD can be (I reiterate "can be") an abusive diagnosis for the benefit of everyone OTHER than the patient.

Let's just medicate them into a zombie state and "...all we have to do is dust them off when we need them to sign their benefits check, and occasionally mop up the drool." I've seen way too many people made to endure 'extra' suffering because families and doctors would rather believe the did something to help... and a drugged out life "appears" helpful.

Or worse still, patients who become aware that something is wrong, and then get "gaslighting routine number 4" to make everyone around them feel good, and doctors get 'reward points' for prescribing the drug of the month... "Mali.. here we come!"

[K218b]

As K218b stated, people “practice “ medicine and don’t necessarily ever get it right.

Just because they passed Med School doesn’t mean they were at the top of the class. The best and brightest usually don’t stay at family medicine levels. Not to say that they are inferior, they usually get pushed into specialties.

I can only speak to the question that was asked.

Physicians aren’t trained in Mental Health unless it’s specialized training. Once they start to actually interact with patients it becomes a see one, do one, teach one concept. And their pharmaceutical/ pharmacodynamics training is relatively basic. It’s essentially on the job training. Hence blindly trusting a physician is generally a piss poor idea as well.

Better still to get the diagnosis, and do your own research and then see what medication works for you. Otherwise you might as well believe what the tv commercials tell you. Of course they just spout the side effects without telling you what the drug is used to treat!

Tecate

You are making a very important point.
Doctors rarely get training on mental health issues and it's quite questionable from both a medical and ethical viewpoint to prescribe drugs that often have serious side effects and no much effect in helping the individual with their mental health. In a few words an anti-scientific approach often fuelled by the pharmaceutical need for profit and the personal gains made by doctors.

[FlyersFan]

So according to you he must blindly listen to those who gave him harmful medications in the first place? 

My post was clear  .... he shouldn't be listening to random anonymous people in internet chat forums who know nothing about his condition if they tell him not to take his medication.  

Your statement that he is 'blindly listening' to his doctors is bizarre.  You don't know what research on medications and his condition that he has done and not done.  You don't know what consideration he has given to following doctors advice or not.  You don't know what advice his doctors and his family have been giving him.  Your claim that he is 'blindly' entering into this is based on you knowing NOTHING about him and therefore your claim has no credibility.

[K218b]

Thank you for reiterating a hugely important point!...

There is no "post" (nor article for that matter) that can be take the place of "medical expertise."  I am no doctor, no medical professional of any kind... and I dare say - while well-intentioned and sincere - no one can or should dole out medical advice without that caveat... and everyone should be sure to consult with one with our concerns... it's much safer that way...
 

---

I will say that my best experience with one or two of the antidepressants prescribed to me offered some tangible effect... but it was temporary... and there were side effects.   When I say temporary there is a stinging twist at the end.  As my abated depression manifested itself again, I had to "convince" the doctor... an unpleasant affair... also I found myself not only depressed - but now medicated and jittery - sleepless - or somehow or otherwise afflicted with side-effects I wouldn't have except: "prescriptions." (which ironically, is something to be depressed about.)

Frustrating.

My opinion is that as with depression, and anxiety, PTSD can be (I reiterate "can be") an abusive diagnosis for the benefit of everyone OTHER than the patient.

Let's just medicate them into a zombie state and "...all we have to do is dust them off when we need them to sign their benefits check, and occasionally mop up the drool." I've seen way too many people made to endure 'extra' suffering because families and doctors would rather believe the did something to help... and a drugged out life "appears" helpful.

Or worse still, patients who become aware that something is wrong, and then get "gaslighting routine number 4" to make everyone around them feel good, and doctors get 'reward points' for prescribing the drug of the month... "Mali.. here we come!"

That's what I said earlier.
When something doesn't work or create more problems than it solves then you get a good round of gaslighting by the same people who suggested you should take drugs X,Y,Z.

At the end of the day they may prescribe something else for your condition. I seriously doubt there are drugs that can help in the long term with mental health issues.

[FlyersFan]

I seriously doubt there are drugs that can help in the long term with mental health issues.

.. says the guy who never went to medical school and hasn't received a lick of education in the mental health field.

Like I said earlier ... random people in internet chat forums aren't the best place to get medical advice from.  Seeing what the author of this thread has said, it looks like he is smart enough to know that.

[K218b]

.. says the guy who never went to medical school and hasn't received a lick of education in the mental health field.

Like I said earlier ... random people in internet chat forums aren't the best place to get medical advice from.  Seeing what the author of this thread has said, it looks like he is smart enough to know that.

Random users can still use basic common sense and logic to argue that when something didn't work in the first place there could be no expectation it will work later on. It's just an observation and not some firm of medical advise. You only get medical advise by those qualified to give medical advise. But we can still use logic to make an informed decision and not blindly follow orders.

[argentus]

I am going to suggest to you that "depression" is the wrong word for the condition which you describe;  agree that it is the word that is commonly used, however I think it is a poor noun to represent the condition.  Can I suggest a better one?  Perhaps.  How about 'untethered', or 'disconnective dissociation' (not to be confused with dissociative disorders).  Maybe "singularness".   I don't have depression.   I have merely been depressed, which is very much not the same thing.  My best friend in life experiences depression, and he has been through a plethora of meds;  the most effective (from his perspective) don't alter his perceptions, but just ease the ache of them.   

Toward that end, I have to confess that I've always liked Xanex.  I tried it several years ago for a month in and effort to quit smoking.   It didn't help enough with the smoking urge to allow me to quit, however I recognized that I truly liked how the world felt to me when I took it.   It is difficult to describe, but if pressed to put it succinctly, I would say that for me, it rounded the sharp edges of life;  things that would normally cut or injure, seemed far less important.   I could still operate vehicles and think and reason and even my creative impulses didn't seem truncated.   

Toward the thrust of your thread, no, I've never quit or had to stop an antidepressant.   Having talked at length with my friend, I can't imagine how difficult that world is.   He, like you Maxmars, is incredibly adept at wrangling the horrors of the world thrust upon him, and even manages to laugh and smile.   Like you, he is quite intelligent.   He has quit various antidepressants with mixed results.   The world is painful for him, but 'depression' isn't about pain either.  My buddy would probably characterize it as a sense on unbelongingness, which is why I suggested "untethered".   He's a great guy.  Very compassionate and generous.   

I don't mean to make light of this condition with the following statements.    Very soon in my life, I intend to find a doctor who will allow me to have Xanex in my life.   I know it is habit-forming.   I don't care.   I like how it feels.   I like how I feel when I have it.   If liking it is wrong, I don't want to be right.   The love of my life, with whom I've been happily betrothed for 40 years only noticed this when I took it:   Less things seemed to deeply disturb me.   Yeah, I'll take that any day.   

I really feel for those who are part of this syndrome.   I hate to say "afflicted", because I can't help wondering if those energies might be channeled, such as into art or music or mathematical study.   I don't know what I'm talking about, because I've never been there, but I doubt it is a condition for which there is an easy or definative cure.

[Maxmars]

I am going to suggest to you that "depression" is the wrong word for the condition which you describe;  agree that it is the word that is commonly used, however I think it is a poor noun to represent the condition.  Can I suggest a better one?  Perhaps.  How about 'untethered', or 'disconnective dissociation' (not to be confused with dissociative disorders).  Maybe "singularness".   I don't have depression.   I have merely been depressed, which is very much not the same thing.  My best friend in life experiences depression, and he has been through a plethora of meds;  the most effective (from his perspective) don't alter his perceptions, but just ease the ache of them.   

...

I really feel for those who are part of this syndrome.   I hate to say "afflicted", because I can't help wondering if those energies might be channeled, such as into art or music or mathematical study.   I don't know what I'm talking about, because I've never been there, but I doubt it is a condition for which there is an easy or definative cure.

Bless you for the beautiful ideas, and your willingness to breach the silence.

It's funny that you mention that the word depression may be misplaced, misused, or misunderstood.  I agree wholeheartedly.  I credit the willingness to discuss it, while criticizing the inadequacies of understanding that lead to mischaracterization. 

I know that my first lesson in all this was that we suffer greatly from the "telephone game' when it comes to the topic.  As many struggle with it, the accounts and words of others often echo... even if they don't represent the reality that each of us, as individuals, endure.  I became sensitive to the use in the common vernacular... "Oh, she's depressed about..." might not mean she's depressed at all... it might me that she is overwhelmingly troubled by a specific thing, or that she is feeling a sadness that pervades, or supersedes, other realities in her life.  Nowadays we are too quick to profess knowledge or comprehension about the things "others have said."

I recall watching a comedy with family and friends... laughing hysterically at the antics, situations, and performances in it... all while deeply depressed.  I remember being told... "You are not depressed... you are so cheerful, and attentive..."  as if that "outward" factor was a determinant of depression. 

It builds on what I call the errant imagery of depression... a person wringing their hair at the scalp, looking down, tears flowing from their face... but I don't recall ever not being able to cope socially, even if it was an empty exercise.  The idea that depression "leads" to suicide has often haunted me.  I have never been there... but I have been depressed. I have, since I can remember, always felt that "unbelonging" or "separateness" from the human world around me... my parents raised me to understand that is not a "bad" thing unless I make it a bad thing.  I do not grieve about who I am. As another poster commented elsewhere, "It is what it is."

In regards to Xanax, do what works for you.  No judgements from a mere layman have special value.  And even when professionals opine, sometimes their judgements fail too.

Xanax gave great relief to my wife when she was in distress over her condition... I know it has real benefits...
Me?  I'll stick to pot.  It puts my depression in the background... it's not a cure, but it helps me.

I wanted to focus on the story in the thread about how people (most of whom received never-ending assertions that 'antidepressants' were safe and effective) are discovering, en masse, that these are the words of "marketers" amplified by their proxy middlemen (most of whom are rewarded for their efforts.)

I have an unabashedly amateur's theory that antidepressants only smooth out the peaks and valleys of mood... while they may make the depths feel less oppressive, they also squelch the highs of life, the joy and subtly uplifting moments... making it all rather grey, rather 'blah.'  But that's just my opinion.

I am getting uncomfortable in this discussion because I am not really keen on this being about my feelings... I am not totally "a master" of them.  But I am compelled to defend my insistence that being sad, stressed, burdened, or in grief is NOT necessarily 'depression'... depression is not 'about' things.

[argentus]

I hear you.  Truly.   You created this thread to help others.   That is an amazing thing, and completely consistent with the person you are.   Wow.  That was a clunky sentence.  :D   

Although I've never had depression, I am a fairly intuitive person.  I've talked with my buddy at length.  He's not a sad guy.  In fact, nobody around him knows he has depression, except for his partner.   I figured it out a couple of decades ago, when we were working together on a hazmat project.   We travelled together, and that made the difference.  It was the things that affected him as we travelled.   Depression isn't about sadness, and yet that is a factor, imo.  Certain things that many people would not be affected by made my buddy feel sad.   Because I'm empathetic, I felt those things also; perhaps not to the extent that he did.  I should not talk about him in the past tense, because my buddy is very much alive.   It's just that he's in California and has COPD and can't travel, and we're here, and aren't willing to travel, so while we talk a fair bit, I don't really get to EXPERIENCE him any more.  Not really, in the direct sense.    

I used to love pot.   Recently even.  Of late, I've felt like I can't settle into the buzz of pot, due to the things going on around me.   Our world down here has become a tad tense, and I have to feel relaxed and safe to be able to enjoy the buzz.   I am SO glad you can enjoy the buzz.   Pot is such a beautiful thing.   It should be reclassified as a medicinal herb and let everybody do whatever the hell they want with it without worry of authoritarian interference. 

I think you are right:   Most antidepressants smooth out the deep pain, but perhaps also round out the beautiful peaks.   I don't know what the answer is.   I think that there MUST be some more natural treatment other than the wicked solutions proposed by big Pharma.   My intuition says ginger, turmeric, cannabis, perhaps magnesium, only because is it SO very pivotal  in all our physiological interactions...  I can't help thinking that D3 in the form of being outside in the natural sunlight helps.  I think being in the sea, or at least in the water is a benefit.   I believe in grounding, the process of putting your bare feet on the Earth or in the water.  I can't measure it, so as a scientist, I have to just believe, which is, of course, a conflict.     ....  I take St. John's Wort, because I think it eases my stress, and I've had more than a bit of it lately.   

Here's the thing.....  I don't really think that depression is a condition that can be fixed by any compounds.  Conventional western medicine believes that there is a pill that makes everything better.   Eastern medicine is easier, but still believes there are compounds -- however 'natural' -- that assuage the condition.   

I think it's a process that is made better by interaction.   Perhaps various compounds help, but I think the main juice is to interact with people who feel you.   I think when people who have depression talk together with others who understand, that things are better.   

You aren't broken.   There is nothing wrong with you.   There are a hella lot of people out there who have MUCH more problems than yours.   

I think this thread should become a place for people to talk about depression, and the things that affect it.   I think that will become a thing in which we can all participate.