Will this forum remain Politics-free?

[DBCowboy]

Have you been censored here?  Have we blocked you from speaking your mind?

All that I saw was a request to constrain antagonistic partisanship, not to stay silent.

I'm sorry you feel censored.  And I apologize if I seemed to imply anything like that.  That was never my intent...
I am only a moderator after I am a member, please accept that my opinions are my own.

I do not want to feel censored.

I've always spoken my mind, much to the chagrin of Mods, but I've never tempered my tongue.

Thr biggest conspiracy going on right now is the god-damned government gaslighting all of us.

If I can't say that, and say that honestly, then, I won't be here.

I like a forum where I can just write and not worry about deadlines or grammar or nib-shit editors.

 

[Maxmars]

Please continue to express yourself freely.  Actually, I don't feel that we disagree in any particularly significant way.

For example, I too feel we are continuously being gaslighted by our government's spokespersons... and that we must be able to address that completely, or we have no free speech worthy of the concept.  My opinion is that that we too often address it by not talking about the problem, but the people who exploit it.

Once again, I sincerely regret any sentiment I may have incidentally spawned that you cannot express yourself as you see fit.

I only want to help us reach each other with clear meaning, where our intent is not lost in the delivery.

There is a lesson in here for me... I will not let it pass me by.  Thank you.

[DBCowboy]

Fair enough!

 

[Tecate]

As a right wing Alberta Canadian, (married into a very right wing Mexican family) I just get tired of hearing the Liberal/Conservative rhetoric everywhere.

I respect everyone’s views and opinions until it becomes name calling and takes over the threads…

I can avoid those threads by not getting involved, but when it happens in the middle of nowhere and turns into “did not/did too” stuff, I just back out because the topic is lost. I’m hoping that doesn’t happen here. I know what is coming for November and June in Mexico. Hopefully sooner in Canada…

My 2 pesos…

Tecate

[Maxmars]

All we can do is try to provide an "unfertile" environment for that sort of thing.  It is a community effort.

It starts by calling it out.  Not running from it.

Sadly, many other sites try to run from it... most failing miserably.  Some, like ATS tried to "contain it" but frankly, the members found that to be an impossibility. Any attempt to restrict its propagation were characterized as 'censorship' (apologies to the unrelated synchronicity here.)   Often when people want to speak, any friction is mostly characterized as a horribly "offense" - regardless of the intent behind it.  Offense is usually the domain of the offended to characterize... so ATS had to suffer the 'bleed' of that dynamic all across the board, to the dismay of many.  Beware activism (political or otherwise) in virtual environments... it can, and often does, poison everything in its path.

But truthfully, we can't just proscribe the content of speech, but we do have a say as a community as to its form.  If some member lapses into the paradigm of hostile or antagonistic partisanship or ideological dialog... say so.

We have to protect ourselves, lest we lose the nature of community which seeks free exchange of ideas, reject discouraging theatrical partisanship working against constructive dialogue.

[FlyingClayDisk]

Well, there are several replies here following my initial editorial comment which I'd like to reply to, but rather than replying to each individually, I will attempt to consolidate my reply into a more general (yet specific) response.

Containment - there is nothing wrong with containing a certain subject matter, like politics, into a its specific forum.  It's already being done in all the other subject matter forums here.  The fact that there isn't a "Politics" forum was the very impetus for my editorial reply here to begin with, it is a subject which has overtly and 'obviously' excluded.  All due respect (moderators), but all excluding such a topic does is illustrate the lack of will to actually "moderate" a discussion forum; point blank...it's lazy.

Breath of fresh air - I categorically disagree politics ruins a forum.  On the contrary, it compliments a forum.  As noted previously, to overtly exclude such discussion will be the demise of said forum.  To suggest what the entire 'audience' wants and doesn't want is both short sighted, selfish and dated.  Sorry, but it is.  Politics is reality today, like it or not.  People can choose to openly ignore it, but this is akin to leaving your car unlocked at the mall and then acting surprised when someone steals your stuff.  That's not the world we live in today; it might have been back in 1980, but it isn't reality today.  It is clinging to some past 'fun time' when we were young and our blissful lives had no problems.  That's not reality today, and to ignore it, or even worse to prohibit discussion about it, is missing the forest for the trees (completely).  But hey, I don't make the rules; I am merely offering an opinion.  Outside of this I say...best of luck with that approach.

Bottom line - I don't mean to diminish topics like paranormal and UFO's, I enjoy these also, but the reality today is we live, every day, in an increasingly more draconian police state.  The inability to be able to discuss this, and the principle reasons for it (politics, and politicians), is a serious restriction which doesn't fit with reality, and is an impediment to member participation here.  This police state cannot be denied, it simply cannot be denied.  It exists all around us, and covers an almost endless spectrum of subjects (i.e. free speech, free expression, liberty, taxes, firearms, personal rights, constitutional rights, government overreach, and the list goes on, and on...and on). 

I am here because I believe in this concept.  ATS didn't die because of politics, it just didn't.  ATS died because of lack of ownership, lack of governance, and lack of maintenance (care and feeding).  To suggest politics is the reason for the demise of ATS is pure fantasy; this notion is a matter of some personally held preference, not one of fact.  If politics and the issues associated with politics cannot be discussed here for what they are, politics, then I likely have little contribute here.  Some may say this is a good thing, and if that's the case then so be it; you won't have to worry about me.  However, I believe a speak for a larger group than what may be apparent, for those who are unwilling to speak up on such matters.  Like DB, I am not known for holding my tongue (as it were).

Maxmars...I understand and appreciate the things you have said (Blaine91555, not so much).  I don't disagree with the points you have made, but I would posit, all of these points are manageable.  Please understand the bulk of my comments in this reply are not directed at you, but rather are editorial commentary at large.

[theshadowknows]

Well, there are several replies here following my initial editorial comment which I'd like to reply to, but rather than replying to each individually, I will attempt to consolidate my reply into a more general (yet specific) response.

Containment - there is nothing wrong with containing a certain subject matter, like politics, into a its specific forum.  It's already being done in all the other subject matter forums here.  The fact that there isn't a "Politics" forum was the very impetus for my editorial reply here to begin with, it is a subject which has overtly and 'obviously' excluded.  All due respect (moderators), but all excluding such a topic does is illustrate the lack of will to actually "moderate" a discussion forum; point blank...it's lazy.

Breath of fresh air - I categorically disagree politics ruins a forum.  On the contrary, it compliments a forum.  As noted previously, to overtly exclude such discussion will be the demise of said forum.  To suggest what the entire 'audience' wants and doesn't want is both short sighted, selfish and dated.  Sorry, but it is.  Politics is reality today, like it or not.  People can choose to openly ignore it, but this is akin to leaving your car unlocked at the mall and then acting surprised when someone steals your stuff.  That's not the world we live in today; it might have been back in 1980, but it isn't reality today.  It is clinging to some past 'fun time' when we were young and our blissful lives had no problems.  That's not reality today, and to ignore it, or even worse to prohibit discussion about it, is missing the forest for the trees (completely).  But hey, I don't make the rules; I am merely offering an opinion.  Outside of this I say...best of luck with that approach.

Bottom line - I don't mean to diminish topics like paranormal and UFO's, I enjoy these also, but the reality today is we live, every day, in an increasingly more draconian police state.  The inability to be able to discuss this, and the principle reasons for it (politics, and politicians), is a serious restriction which doesn't fit with reality, and is an impediment to member participation here.  This police state cannot be denied, it simply cannot be denied.  It exists all around us, and covers an almost endless spectrum of subjects (i.e. free speech, free expression, liberty, taxes, firearms, personal rights, constitutional rights, government overreach, and the list goes on, and on...and on). 

I am here because I believe in this concept.  ATS didn't die because of politics, it just didn't.  ATS died because of lack of ownership, lack of governance, and lack of maintenance (care and feeding).  To suggest politics is the reason for the demise of ATS is pure fantasy; this notion is a matter of some personally held preference, not one of fact.  If politics and the issues associated with politics cannot be discussed here for what they are, politics, then I likely have little contribute here.  Some may say this is a good thing, and if that's the case then so be it; you won't have to worry about me.  However, I believe a speak for a larger group than what may be apparent, for those who are unwilling to speak up on such matters.  Like DB, I am not known for holding my tongue (as it were).

Maxmars...I understand and appreciate the things you have said (Blaine91555, not so much).  I don't disagree with the points you have made, but I would posit, all of these points are manageable.  Please understand the bulk of my comments in this reply are not directed at you, but rather are editorial commentary at large.

The politics were the beginning of the end, with ATSNN and the Mudpit starting the oversaturation of politics over conspiracy topics on ATS. Here, politics within a conspiracy discussion is fine, but this isn't a political forum and it never will be.

I didn't moderate on ATS, but I know they went through hell moderating these last few years, and they weren't paid a dime. Instead, mocked by the new ownership as if they were dumb for their dedication regardless. I wouldn't call them lazy by any means. If they were, they wouldn't be here and they wouldn't still be moderating ATS. They'd say fuck it and leave it all to die.

[FlyingClayDisk]

The politics were the beginning of the end, with ATSNN and the Mudpit starting the oversaturation of politics over conspiracy topics on ATS. Here, politics within a conspiracy discussion is fine, but this isn't a political forum and it never will be.

I didn't moderate on ATS, but I know they went through hell moderating these last few years, and they weren't paid a dime. Instead, mocked by the new ownership as if they were dumb for their dedication regardless. I wouldn't call them lazy by any means. If they were, they wouldn't be here and they wouldn't still be moderating ATS. They'd say fuck it and leave it all to die.

I absolutely was NOT suggesting the moderators of ATS, particularly those who moderated all subjects politic, were lazy by any means!  Quite the contrary.  I thought they did a spectacular job overall.  And, their efforts were greatly appreciated by myself and others!  That was not the intent of my statement at all!  I am acutely aware of how difficult their job was.

What I am saying is that refusing to allow political discussion is lazy.  Different statement.  Different forum.  Same theme.

[theshadowknows]

I was NOT calling the moderators of ATS, particularly those who moderated all subjects politic, lazy by any means!  Quite the contrary.  I thought they did a spectacular job overall.  And, their efforts were greatly appreciated by myself and others!  That was not the intent of my statement at all!  I am acutely aware of how difficult their job was.

What I am saying is that refusing to allow political discussion is lazy.  Different statement.  Different forum.  Same theme.

Ah so I'm lazy? lol. Just trying to clarify. The rest of the staff agrees with me about the politics though. It's been much more peaceful here. The tone is calmer, and we're back to talking about UFOs and the topics that shaped the beginnings of ATS.

I often think of Carl Sagan's quote about the Pale Blue Dot, and it becomes so abundantly apparent how insignificant things like political bickering are when we should all be thinking in terms of humanity. The leaders of the world want us fighting each other, not them, and they're on their way to destroying the planet. I'm not playing into that game. I don't want this website to be another little microcosm feeding from their system of propaganda. 

We are all one.

[FlyingClayDisk]

Ah so I'm lazy? lol. Just trying to clarify. The rest of the staff agrees with me about the politics though. It's been much more peaceful here. The tone is calmer, and we're back to talking about UFOs and the topics that shaped the beginnings of ATS.

I often think of Carl Sagan's quote about the Pale Blue Dot, and it becomes so abundantly apparent how insignificant things like political bickering are when we should all be thinking in terms of humanity. The leaders of the world want us fighting each other, not them, and they're on their way to destroying the planet. I'm not playing into that game. I don't want this website to be another little microcosm feeding from their system of propaganda. 

We are all one.

[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO5FwsblpT8]

No!  You're NOT lazy!  Far from it.  The concept is lazy.  It's nothing personal.  So, please do not take it as being personal.

The point is, UFO's and paranormal can only hold so much water, and if the intent of the forum is to remain small and limited to this area of discussion, then this is fine.  I am merely pointing out that if the forum wishes to expand and attract members then it needs to welcome the Conspiracy Du Jour which IS Politics (and surrounding conspiracy, deep state and current affairs topics).  If you are okay with politics creeping into the forums (here) by the same name, then fine, but in reading the T&C's this does not seem to be the intended theme.

edit - I also think you may be being influenced by some of the former and current ATS moderators who are fatigued with dealing with politics, particularly in an atmosphere of shifting and/or absent leadership, and especially questionable leadership with a prominent political bent.  And, I think these moderators are jaded and biased because of it.  As I have often commented, I think the ATS staff did a fantastic job moderating ATS, but candidly, some of them are likely tired, battle fatigued if you will.  Having familiar faces is good, and I'm not suggesting this applies to 'all' the ATS moderators, but I also think it would be good to infuse new blood into your forum also (all due respect, ATS moderators).  By keeping almost the exact same staff you run the risk of having some of the same issues and disputes show back up.  Some new faces would be a good thing.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear you have an overwhelming vote from (former and current) ATS staff to exclude politics!  I would expect no less, but that doesn't change the point here.

---

And one other thought, ironically playing into the Carl Sagan theme at the end of your last reply...

Humans aren't going anywhere.  'Some' humans might go to the Moon, or Mars, but humans as a whole aren't going anywhere.  Not in our lifetime, and not in the lifetimes of future generations.  That's the funny thing about the human life form...we're stuck here.  Like it or not, but leaving isn't an option (except in a bag).

As a physicist myself, I loved Carl Sagan.  He was able to put things into perspective for the masses, but only if they listened to his words carefully.  There used to be drinking games around how many times Sagan would say the word "billions", but those words were key to understanding what he was really saying.  Most often, when Sagan said 'billions', it was followed with the word "miles", as in billions of miles (away).  We're not going there...unfortunately.  And, even if we could develop 'things' which can 'go there' we will never know of them after they leave.  Right now, as I write this, our furthest probe from Earth, Voyager 1 (and 2) still attempt to 'phone home' every now and then.  They're not even out into interstellar space yet (technically speaking), and even still a message takes over 23 hours to reach Earth from Voyager 1.  Voyager 1 won't even reach the Oort cloud for another 300 years and will require thousands of years to travel through it.  Only then will Voyager be technically free of our Solar System.  Imagine when/if Voyager or some other craft meets with Sagan's 'billions and billions' of miles at some distant star.  We will never hear from it.  Bottom line, humans in their current form are stuck here on Earth, and our future depends on dealing with issues not in space, but rather right here on Earth.

There's not enough subject matter about UFO's, ET's, paranormal, supernatural or (even skinwalkers) to sustain discussions much beyond the end of this decade.  Oh sure, there will be some new thing to come along every now and then, but on the whole these discussions have been largely worn out, much the same as conspiracies such as JFK and the Bermuda Triangle have been talked to death.  These 'horses', if you will, have been beaten to dust.  So, what else is there?  Well, back here on Earth (which we're never going to leave) are a whole host of problems and issues we humans need to contend with, and TPTB who control the solutions to these issues are ruled by one thing, and you guessed it...politics.