Let's cut through the BS. Do GUNS kill people, OR...

[Maxmars]

When the Bible says that something is like something else, it is clearly a use of metaphor, simile or type.

But when it is a direct statement, it isn't an allusion to something else.

Sins are clearly defined in the Bible as being contrary to specific rules. This passage is saying that we have, all of us, broken one or more of those specific rules at some stage.

It is a theme that recurs throughout the Bible and is quite clearly specific in meaning:

30 Powerful bible verses about man’s sinfulness (Full Commentary)

In pre-Christian discussions and plays, many philosophers took the view that no-one was truly virtuous (an analogue of sinlessness), and that self-claims of virtue were often, paradoxically, the sign of a tyrant. This has been borne out time and time again over history and is also a frequent theme in media even today.

In the context of guns, this line of argument is some what difficult to pursue...
Perhaps I might suggest offering a thread to discuss this very thing.

[chr0naut]

In the context of guns, this line of argument is some what difficult to pursue...
Perhaps I might suggest offering a thread to discuss this very thing.

I believe it is quite relevant because it counters the assumption that "responsible proactive citizens" will always and forever remain that way.

And even if a 'bad person' is shot, and killed or injured, by a 'responsible and proactive citizen' defending themselves or others, it is still another gun statistic.

... and that 'responsible and proactive citizen' has dispensed summary sentence without due legal process, inflicting intentional manslaughter or grievous bodily harm, something that is itself prosecutable under most legal systems in the world.

And since firearms have no volition of their own, they have no legal rights. Authorities can treat them entirely as potentially deadly inanimate objects.

[BeyondKnowledge]

I take my life wisdom from Indiana Jones series and it led me to the conclusion that guns make killing definitely easier. And I can PROVE it!

So, you don't know that that scene was not in the script? There was supposed to be a fight scene with that simitar against the whip and other fighting. Harrison Ford made it up on the spot and the director went with it because his shoulder was sore from other stunts. Great scene though.

No, guns don't really make it easier to kill people unless there is something already wrong with the person doing the shooting. Normal people don't consider doing around and shooting others on a whim. There are enough that don't consider killing others to be bad thing to need protection against them. Almost always, it is someone with a gun that stops a shooting spree because that is all the shooter will understand.

So, how do we get all people to consider not killing other people because killing is bad? That will solve violent crime if we can figure that out. Making it illeagle to murder doesn't stop them. Taking away the guns doesn't stop them.

We do know making gun free zones just makes for target rich environments without defence for a period of time until help with guns arrive. Can we get rid of those?

[chr0naut]

this guy, amirite?

People are inherently evil, guns are fascist, there are no heroes only self aggrandizing psychopaths, orange man bad. Comical.

And no, I'm not going to waste time arguing with you. i just want you to remember in a contest between a gun and god's favor, the gun wins 99.99% of the time. So I prefer to have it and not need it.

Trump was pretty quick to claim God's favour (although why he would think that God would favour an unrepentant, lying, thieving, womanizing, divorced, tax-cheating, vindictive and boastful person, I don't know).

But seriously, do you think that some twit with a firearm could best God or His favoured? That shows a problem with comprehension.

[chr0naut]

Guns kill people in the same way that pencils fail tests.

They stopped using pencils and crayons for tests years ago...

[argentus]

They stopped using pencils and crayons for tests years ago...

Is that really your true response?   The medium in which the written word is rendered?  I am sorry that you are unable to understand the analogy which I so artfully rendered.

[Maxmars]

Trump was pretty quick to claim God's favour (although why he would think that God would favour an unrepentant, lying, thieving, womanizing, divorced, tax-cheating, vindictive and boastful person, I don't know).

But seriously, do you think that some twit with a firearm could best God or His favoured? That shows a problem with comprehension.

Trump's perceived connection with God is entirely your conjecture... and the realm of media/activist media operations...

Most people see him as the right man for the moment... 
the other was as clearly wrong for the job... my own consideration.

I don't expect people to be exemplars of virtue. 
The "virtue" of the political is what we've been lied to about for decades... pro and con.
It's what the political "class" brought to the table with their marriage to media.

Their banter is not constructive... its combative.

Guns are an object. Nothing more nothing less. 

They are a crafted tool.
You all should already know that tools are made to be "used."
Their use is always dangerous, from a personal safety perspective.
Things go wrong, accidents happen...

Man's disposition is universal and not limited to guns.
If we begin proscribing objects... how long before it becomes
the next object someone fears another might misuse?...

[chr0naut]

Is that really your true response?   The medium in which the written word is rendered?  I am sorry that you are unable to understand the analogy which I so artfully rendered.

A person without any means to present their answers will definitely fail an exam.

Just like someone who has NO access to a device that can fire a projectile, can ever shoot someone.

Arguing that inanimate objects don't have volition, is rather an obvious inanity.

The issue is with the carnage caused by firearms in the hands of people. You could chop off their hands, or kill all the people, or arrest everyone you deem is 'bad with a firearm', or who might possibly be 'bad with a firearm' at some time, and there will still be carnage. If you totally remove their access to firearms - problem solved, and people can go about their normal lives, as they do.

The easiest, cheapest, least nasty solution is to remove the access to firearms for most people.

Yes, there will still be some firearms in the hands of criminals, but there will will be a lot less if they are just simply harder to come by And, of course, law enforcement and military will still be armed (and state militia, too, since it is guaranteed by the US Constitution).

[argentus]

A person without any means to present their answers will definitely fail an exam.

Just like someone who has NO access to a device that can fire a projectile, can ever shoot someone.

Arguing that inanimate objects don't have volition, is rather an obvious inanity.

The issue is with the carnage caused by firearms in the hands of people. You could chop off their hands, or kill all the people, or arrest everyone you deem is 'bad with a firearm', or who might possibly be 'bad with a firearm' at some time, and there will still be carnage. If you totally remove their access to firearms - problem solved, and people can go about their normal lives, as they do.

The easiest, cheapest, least nasty solution is to remove the access to firearms for most people.

Yes, there will still be some firearms in the hands of criminals, but there will will be a lot less if they are just simply harder to come by And, of course, law enforcement and military will still be armed (and state militia, too, since it is guaranteed by the US Constitution).

So, you understand that pencils (or pens, or computers, or any inanimate objects) don't have volition.    Why do you think guns do?   

I didn't say that I don't support gun controls.   Unlike you, I answered the thread question.  You now apparently understand that guns don't kill people.  People do that.  Cars also don't kill people, but the people driving them.   You incorrectly assumed my position based upon your own projection.    Debate and discussion is enjoyable for me, however not with people who get angry.   I like to know what people think, and I find more by listening, than talking.

[theshadowknows]

Discussing the suspension of another member is prohibited due to privacy reasons. That's between that member and the staff, and the door is always open for that member to reach out.

Please stay on topic.